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Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

  • 1.  Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 20-Sep-2017 08:58
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Hi RAPS community,

    Based on your experience, how long/how many hours would you say it normally takes for a consultant/group of consultants to conduct an ISO 13485:2016 transition project for a small medical device manufacturer, which subcontracts manufacturing to a third-party, and also considering that this small medical device manufacturer recently had an FDA inspection and ISO 13485 audit with no findings (i.e., considering that there's already a relatively robust QMS in place)? 

    Does anyone know a consultant/company that does ISO 13485:2016 transition for a flat rate/fixed fee (rather than per the hour)? If so, what would you say is the usual/average cost for a small medical device manufacturer's QMS transition to ISO 13485:2016?

    Thank you very much in advance for your inputs.



  • 2.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 20-Sep-2017 10:54
    I would recommend you please contact few firms (e.g., shop around) to get quotes.

    Generally, it can significantly vary depending upon various factors, ranging from 40 to few hundred hours. 

    If your current system is well established per 21 CFR Part 820, transition would be expected to be fairly easy, straightforward.  

    Thank you.

    s/ David
    ______________________________________________
    Dr. David Lim, Ph.D., RAC, ASQ-CQA 
    REGULATORY DOCTOR
    Phone (Toll-Free): 1-(800) 321-8567

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  • 3.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 21-Sep-2017 02:15
    Edited by Timothy Lee 22-Sep-2017 14:30

    There are a number of options out there for you to choose from.  Choose the one that meets your needs and requirements best


    https://www.bsigroup.com/en-US/medical-devices/

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  • 4.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 21-Sep-2017 07:51

    Two weeks ago, we successfully passed our "ISO 13485:2016 certification upgrade" audit by a renowned ISO registrar and Notified Body (TüV SüD Product Service of Munich, Germany).

     

    Our company is in a comparable situation as yours : a medium size company (around 65 staff) entirely focusing on medical device design and development with manufacturing done by commercialization partners or contract manufacturers.

     

    Our QMS was first certified in 1995 (to MDD - Annex II, ISO 9001 + EN 46001, remember ?) and well maintained throughout the years (including compliance to 21 CFR 820) and strengthening processes like risk management, software life cycle management, and usability engineering over time, as these subjects became more important to us as well as to the regulators.

     

    We prepared early on for the 2016 revision of ISO 13485 by studying publicly available draft versions of the standard, (free) white papers available from standards organizations or consulting organizations, attending (free) webinars by the same organizations, and some paid training for our quality staff. We did all the work ourselves at little additional effort as part of the regular review and maintenance of our QMS.

     

    Based thereupon, and as stated by Dr Lim, your upgrade should be relatively smooth and straightforward.

     

    Our recommendation to you would be to use outside consultants only for those parts of your QMS update where you feel somewhat uncomfortable with requirements that are new in the standard or for which you internally lack adequate expertise or resources. Yet, where updating to the revised standard consists of expanding or brushing up your existing SOPs, Work Instructions, or Forms, we recommend that you do this yourself. It will likely take you less time for a result that is better adapted to your needs and operational context than supervising these same efforts done by an outside consultant.

     

    Finally, and as applicable to your company, ensure that the update of your QMS to the revised ISO 13485 standard will facilitate the next really big step for your QMS : compliance with the newly published European regulations known as MDR and IVDR.

     

    With kindest regards and wishing you the best of luck !



    ------------------------------
    Ary Saaman
    Director, Regulatory Affairs
    Debiotech S.A.
    Lausanne
    Switzerland
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 21-Sep-2017 13:20
    As the other responses have indicated, the time and cost varies based on size of company, scope of business, and maturity of the QMS. All transition projects however, should start with a Gap Analysis to help both the device company and the consultant get a better idea of how much work will be required. 

    Qualitas Professional Services helps small to mid-size manufacturers and service companies develop and implement quality systems and transition projects for both QMS and the EU MDR. The Gap Analysis is a flat project fee, and the actual transition work can be hourly or a flat fee depending on client preference, the amount of work required based on the GA findings, as well as the level of involvement/control the client wants to have with the project.

    If you are interested in learning more, please contact me directly and I can provide you with a personalized quote.

    Cheers!
    Lena
    lena.cordie@qualitasproserv.com

    ------------------------------
    Lena Cordie
    Victoria MN
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 23-Sep-2017 15:34
    I agree with the prior comments with one caveat.

    I think the organization will be better off if you have your own staff immerse themselves in the 2016 standard, compare it side-by-side with the 2003 standard, and write your own prescription (Gap Analysis and Quality Plan) for your Quality Manual and procedure renovations.

    This is the responsibility of the Quality System Management Representative, and while you can outsource certain aspects, you will learn a lot more and be better able to defend your incredible system if you keep this work in-house.



    ------------------------------
    Sam Lazzara
    Sam@MDQC.com
    MDQC.blog
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 24-Sep-2017 17:10
    I would agree that you need to take ownership of the plan but there's nothing wrong with getting help.

    with the information you've provided it sounds like the cost would be ~ $5-10k.

    I'm currently engaged with a couple of companies going through the same situation you are right now, let me know if I can be of service.

    regards
    Jim

    ------------------------------
    James Shore
    Northborough MA
    United States
    James@qualityleansolutions.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 26-Sep-2017 15:08

    As a minor addition to this thread : just today did I find out that ISO published a guidance on ISO 13485:2016 "ISO 13485:2016 - Medical devices - A practical guide". For sale from ISO for CHF 88 at https://www.iso.org/publication/PUB100422.html . With kindest regards,



    ------------------------------
    Ary Saaman
    Director, Regulatory Affairs
    Debiotech S.A.
    Lausanne
    Switzerland
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 27-Sep-2017 04:39
    ​And one more interesting and useful publication for those that are still transitioning to the 2016 version : "Understanding the use of "Where Appropriate/As Appropriate" within the ISO 13485:2016 standard" by Ms. Christine Park. I did come across it on Mastercontrol's website at : https://www.mastercontrol.com/gxp-lifeline/understanding-the-use-of-where-appropriate-as-appropriate?source=n3w5meddev . Good luck and with kindest regards,

    ------------------------------
    Ary Saaman
    Director, Regulatory Affairs
    Debiotech S.A.
    Lausanne
    Switzerland
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 27-Sep-2017 13:57
    Is this the handbook initially scheduled for publication in January 2017?

    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 27-Sep-2017 17:33
    Frankly, Dan, I do not know. I came across it for the first time yesterday (Sept 26, 2017). Although Switzerland has a reputation as a country where everything happens on time, Switzerland based organization like IEC and ISO more often than not are just the opposite ;).

    ------------------------------
    Ary Saaman
    Director, Regulatory Affairs
    Debiotech S.A.
    Lausanne
    Switzerland
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 28-Sep-2017 09:20
    To All 13485:2016 Implementation Teams:

    I just downloaded the long awaited TC210 Implementation Guide... at this link:

    https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:pub:PUB100422

    220 pages - instant download via PDF $90.84 after swiss franc conversion. An account is needed. Personalized copyright printed on every page.

    Best Regards,
    Steve

    ------------------------------
    Stephen Ruggles
    President / Project Manager
    CQR Consulting, Inc.
    Lunenburg MA
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 28-Sep-2017 07:56
    The ISO 13485:2016 Handbook is to be published by ISO and will be for sale there.  The original release date was delayed because of significant comments in the voting process, which caused it to be sent back to the author team for revision before final release.  As a Handbook, it was supposed to be easier to get through the ISO process to be quickly published.  But it still had to be approved, and they could not get those votes, so it went back.  It should be released soon, I just do not have a final date at my fingertips.

    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills RAC, MA
    Principal Consultant
    Edwin Bills Consultant
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 28-Sep-2017 08:43
    ​I believe this Handbook is on sale by ISO already (pdf, in English, CHF 88). See : ISO 13485:2016 - Medical devices - A practical guide . With kindest regards,

    ------------------------------
    Ary Saaman
    Director, Regulatory Affairs
    Debiotech S.A.
    Lausanne
    Switzerland
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 28-Sep-2017 08:53
    Actually just yesterday I got a note on the ISO 13485:2016 Guidance Handbook document, looks like it is now available:

    "On ISO website: https://www.iso.org/publication/PUB100422.html

    It is available for 88 swiss francs (about $90) through ISO. Not sure yet if it is available through AAMI."



    ------------------------------
    Rem Siekmann, ASQ CBA
    Principal Engineer
    Mentor OH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 28-Sep-2017 11:02
    ISO 13485 Handbook was published this Monday according to ISO TC 210 WG 1 Chair.  It can be purchased at ISO.

    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills RAC, MA
    Principal Consultant
    Edwin Bills Consultant
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 05-Oct-2017 12:11
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Hi,

    Since preview on the ISO website only gives the first 10 pages (out of 220 pages), it is hard to tell if that's worth the investment. Does anyone have an idea if it provides practical information for implementation (e.g. examples of sentences to put in SOP, examples of flowchart to address risk-based approach, etc.)? I'm curious to know your thoughts on the value of this handbook.


  • 18.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 05-Oct-2017 12:30
    Did you buy the previous ISO/TR 14969:2004 as it related to the implementation of ISO 13485:2003?  Depending on whether or not you found that document useful when transitioning from ISO 13485:1995 to ISO 13485:2003 is how you should base your decision on the new guidance and the transition now to edition 3 (ISO 13485:2016).

    John

    ------------------------------
    John Beasley RAC
    Founder and Senior Consultant
    Medtech Review, LLC
    Henderson NV
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 05-Oct-2017 14:56

    John :

     

     

    I find you reasoning very reasonable … .

     

    Yet, we already successfully passed our « upgrade audit » early September 2017, i.e., a few weeks before the guidance came out.

     

    I found the previous guidance (ISO/TR 14969:2004) moderately useful in terms of the information it provided. Its most useful attribute was that it embedded the full normative text of the standard. Yet, it was also useful to us, because the auditor(s) from our Notified Body also used it and sometimes intelligently made us aware of certain recommendations in the guidance.

     

    We did purchase the new guidance and will definitely scan through it for useful suggestions to ensure we continue to implement the best published practices in our Quality Management System.

     

    Personally, I have always found AAMI's Quality System Compendium and FDA's « Medical Device Quality Systems Manual : A Small Entity Compliance Guide » (HHS Publication FDA 97-4179, I believe it was obsoleted by FDA) more useful than the ISO guidance documents.

     

    With kindest regards,



    ------------------------------
    Ary Saaman
    Director, Regulatory Affairs
    Debiotech S.A.
    Lausanne
    Switzerland
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Cost of ISO 13485:2016 transition

    Posted 07-Oct-2017 12:33
    I agree with the others that it will vary. 40 to 80 hours should be sufficient to confirm continuous compliance and addressing small gaps if you were already compliant to the most important QSR and previous 13485 requirements.

    ------------------------------
    Viky Verna, MS BME, MS Pharm, RAC (Global)
    Senior Consultant
    Confinis AG
    Washington DC/United States
    Bern/Switzerland
    ------------------------------