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FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

  • 1.  FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 16-Aug-2019 11:42
    There was general talk in the industry that FDA is expected to release a Computer System Validation guidance this year. Did anyone hear anything about this? We still have the 2002 guidance that serves as the base for CSV and I'm looking forward to see the latest guidance from FDA.

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    Loganathan Kumarasamy, MS RAC
    Senior Consultant
    Waukegan IL
    United States
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  • 2.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 17-Aug-2019 03:12
    Loganathan - I had heard about that too, keeping aware myself, but have not seen anything.

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    Richard Vincins RAC
    Vice President Global Regulatory Affairs
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  • 3.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 10:15
    The "rumors" are because per MDUFA4 commitment letter the FDA was supposed to release an updated draft of this guidance by Sept of this year. However, rumors lead me to believe they won't hit this deadline. So we will see if and when they get around to it. Apparently MDUFA "commitments" don't mean a lot these days.

    g-

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    Ginger Glaser RAC
    Chief Technology Officer
    MN
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  • 4.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 10:48
    Thanks Ginger! But I do not see any specific references to CSV on MDUFA IV plan.

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    Loganathan Kumarasamy, MS RAC
    Senior Consultant
    Waukegan IL
    United States
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  • 5.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 11:20
    Not sure how much weight to give the Unified Agenda, but I don't think this guidance is listed there?

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    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 13:20

    Each year CDRH publishes a list of planned guidance documents in two parts. List A is the guidance documents expected in the fiscal year and List B is the "hoped for" guidance documents.

    The guidance document for non-product software is on List A for this fiscal year.

    I believe that Cisco Vincens is working on it. In any case, he did a series of webinars for Greenlight Guru and one of them was on the proposed guidance document. I believe they are posted on the Greenlight Guru website. It was part of a series, and you may not recognize it by the name of the series. (I think the series name had something to do with Case for Quality.)

    Since FDA reorganized the website, I can't find the list.



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    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
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  • 7.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 13:58
    Thanks, Dan.  I forgot I had also looked at CDRH's planned guidance list, which I found here:

    https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/guidance-documents-medical-devices-and-radiation-emitting-products/cdrh-fiscal-year-2019-fy-2019-proposed-guidance-development

    I didn't see a guidance document with "computer system validation" in the title, and that's all I know of what Loganathan is looking for.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 14:12
    In the list it is called "Computer Software Assurance for Manufacturing, Operations, and Quality System Software". This is the requirement in 820.70(i).

    A quality or regulatory topic is not legitimate unless it has at least three ways of referring to it!

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    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
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  • 9.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 19-Aug-2019 14:22
    So true.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 20-Aug-2019 13:55
      |   view attached
    Hi All,

    Yes, this came out of Case for Quality, and indeed Cisco Vicenty is part of the team working on it.  I have attached ​a presentation given in March of this year with the progress and updates. 


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    Jackie Torfin
    Vice President, Global QA and Regulatory Compliance
    Maple Grove MN
    United States
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)



  • 11.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 20-Aug-2019 15:50
    Thanks Jackie! That was very helpful!

    ------------------------------
    Loganathan Kumarasamy, MS RAC
    Senior Consultant
    Waukegan IL
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 21-Aug-2019 14:48
    Dear Loganathan, 
    As of 2017, ISO/TR 80002-2 Medical device software, Part 2: Validation of software for regulated processes has been published. It seems that ISO has taken AAMI TIR 36 and released it without any significant changes.
    This guidance is very much in line with the way FDA is going.


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    Kamran Younis
    Mr
    Butler NJ
    United States
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  • 13.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 21-Aug-2019 10:32
    It is about time to move away from the never-ending screenshots for CSV. Unforutnelty, old habits die hard and we have a lot of experienced people in the field "telling" companies that screenshots are the only objective evidence.

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    Kamran Younis
    Mr
    Butler NJ
    United States
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  • 14.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    Posted 21-Aug-2019 11:06

    I never use screenshots and always talk people out of them. Instead, I control the revision of the script and the revision of the software. Any test should, as a result be repeatable.

     

    For the previous few years, I've been doing a lot of work with Excel software validation and this method works well.



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    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
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  • 15.  RE: FDA - Computer System Validation Guidance

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 22-Aug-2019 09:14
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    ​Yes, with any reasonably robust system, basic revision control makes for repeatable results.

    If you're troubleshooting an unstable system with intermittent errors in the hardware, operating system, software, or somewhere else, and you're trying to track them down using screen shots, or video of the users' hands on the keyboard, the GUI, thermocouple/oscilloscope readouts, etc., you're really not in the validation stage yet.