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ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

  • 1.  ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 02-May-2022 21:25
    ISO 14971:2019 / EN ISO 14971:2019 and ISO/TR 24971:2020 call P2 the "probability of a hazardous situation leading to harm", whereas they refer to P (i.e., P1 x P2) as the "probability of occurrence of harm".  Yet in plain terms, "probability of a hazardous situation leading to harm" (P2) sounds a whole lot like "probability of occurrence of harm" (P).  And this seems to be what 24971 section 5.4.7 Figure 1 is saying.  So, what's the practical difference between P2 (probability of a hazardous situation leading to harm) and P (probability of occurrence of harm)?  14971 and 24971 don't seem to give clear practical explanation of the difference between these two concepts; both seem to be the same basic thing: probability of occurrence of harm.

    For this question, let's assume that there is sufficiently-robust source data to support the decomposition of probability into P1 (PA, PB, PC, etc.) and P2.

    Thanks for your help.

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Randall, ASQ CQA, RAC (Europe, U.S., Canada)
    Principal Consultant
    Ridgway, CO
    United States
    © Copyright 2022 by ComplianceAcuity, Inc. All rights reserved.
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 03-May-2022 01:55
    Dear Kevin,

    a concrete example might help.
    Let us assume that a short circuit within a physical electrical device causes an overheating and thus the housing of the device gets very hot.

    There is a certain probability for the short circuit to occur.
    There is a certain probability for the housing to get over 50°C.
    There is a certain probability for the user to touch the housing (e.g. during cleaning).
    If the user touches the housing with unprotected fingers there is the probability for a minor self-healing skin burn, another probability for a major burn that requires medical intervention.

    So what would be the assignments of the P-Levels in this example?

    Each of the mentioned stages above has its own probability. So, the overall probability P is just the product of all single probabilities of the single stages listed above.

    It gets fuzzy as the last stage considers a harm in any case, but the probability for the different severity levels is spread. So, you could also say the probability for any kind of skin burn is P, whereas the probability for a minor one is 90% of that P and for the major one is 10% of that P. This philosophy is even not described by ISO 14971, isn't it? Maybe that it is just hidden within the P, the probability that any kind of harm occurs.

    P1 is the probability of a short circuit that heats up the inner space, including housing.
    P2 is the probability that someone touches the housing ("probability of a hazardous situation leading to harm").

    Does that make sense? Would you agree to that?

    ------------------------------
    Christian Rosenzweig
    Consultant
    Marburg
    Germany
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 03-May-2022 03:17
    Dear Kevin

    The split of P into different probabilities is intended to help breakdown the estimation of P into bitesize chunks depending on the complexity of the sequence of events leading to the hazardous situation. Even with the hazardous situation present, there may still be other factors at play that can affect the likelihood of the hazardous situation leading to harm.

    P is the overall probability of the occurrence of harm (typically a specified harm at a specific level of severity, and could be further defined as the specific harm caused by a specific hazardous situation too). P1 is the probability of the hazardous situation occurring; P2 is when that hazardous situation occurs the probability of it causing a specified harm at a specific severity level (i.e. in Christian's example, the short circuit has occurred and heated the housing, P2 is how likely that heated housing would be to cause the harm...so you might see lower severity burns at a higher probability compared with more serious burns....it all depends on the ability for the housing to be touched, the housing temperature, the possible identification of the fault condition before touching the housing, duration of contact, location of body that is in contact, presence of any clothing or PPE, condition of the person making the contact and whether they have sufficient awareness/ability to remove themselves from the heat source at the first sensation). So P2 is only ever the probability of the potential issue (hazardous situation) turning into actual harm. A conservative approach to this would be to assume P2 =1 all the time, but that does not necessarily reflect reality. I hope that helps, assuming I have understood your query correctly.

    ------------------------------
    Edward Ball
    Manager, Intelligence & Innovation
    United Kingdom
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 03-May-2022 07:17
    Kevin,

    This may just be imprecise wording. The "probability of a hazardous situation leading to harm" (P2) is the percentage of time that the harm will occur IF the hazardous situation occurs, while the probability of occurrence of harm is the "overall" probability of a harm occurring during each use, 

    As an illustration, if the probability of the occurrence of a specific hazardous situation is 10% of the time, with a specific harm occurring in 10% of those times, then the "overall" probability of harm for each time the product is used is 1%.  

    That is my understanding.

    Lee


    ------------------------------
    Lee Leichter RAC
    President
    Fort Denaud FL
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 03-May-2022 08:29
    Hi Kevin, et. al.

    in addition to the valuable feedback, I like to share one aspect (which I use sometimes to explain the concept). 

    >> Lets consider a sterile product surface which is contaminated by pathogens. 

    Here I conclude that the hazardous situation is the presence of pathogens on an surface. Lets further assume that it is a fluid transporting  tube (towards the patient). P1 is the likelihood of pathogens being present (and being transported "into" the patient). P2 is than the likelihood, that an exposed person experiences illness. 

    My point is, that here are two distinguished sets of expertise needed to assess P1 and P2;  From this the challenge, that the team which can make a call on P1 is not able to assess P2 (and vice versa) may arise.   

    For this set of sequences, the separation of P into P1, P2, ..., Px is helpful to use the different expertise of the risk management team.

    ------------------------------
    Uwe Zeller | Regulatory Affairs / Risk Management Consultant
    Biberach an der Riß, Germany
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 04-May-2022 09:54
    A convention that I use, and this is strictly my own way of dealing with risk probabilities, is to consider P1 as being the product of the probabilities that are within my ability to control as  product designer and manufacturer. P2 then becomes the product of the probabilities of events outside of my control--how the user uses (misuses) the product, the environment it is used in, etc.--that would result in a harm. Reducing P then is an exercise to reduce P1 because there is little to no control over reducing P2. Yet it is still factored into overall P.

    ------------------------------
    Barbara Young
    Bear DE
    United States
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  • 7.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 05-May-2022 07:43
    https://www.greenlight.guru/blog/en-iso-149712012-risk-assessment-explained 
    provides a great way to think about this. It properly describes reality versus laborious wordy definitions.

    ------------------------------
    David Manalan
    Principal, INQC Consulting
    Acton MA
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 05-May-2022 09:33
    I am sorry I have not been able to respond to this discussion since it stated several days ago.

    First of all, P1 and P2 was originally developed as an education tool to show how the probability of a hazard occurring or a failure occurring was not the same as probability of a hazard occurring.  It was provided as guidance in an Annex of ISO 14971:2007.  It is not and never has been a requirement in the standard to identify P1 and P2 values, and may be very difficult in some situations.  It is certainly helpful to improve the accuracy of these estimates we are making in the risk management process.  But is it worth the effort?  In some cases it may not be.

    I would refer you to Annex C in ISO 14971:2020 5.4.7 Figure to see a more complete picture of the complexity of P1 and P2, as these are not just one number in most cases, but each may be a combination of several values.  For instance, in most cases there may be more than one harm from exposure to a Hazardous Situation and each has its own probability of occurrence.  That is why the diagram has the equation P2=P2(burn) P2(discomfort) P2(death), each an independent probability.  
    Also we see P1=PA+PB+PC+PD... for Probability of the Hazardous Situation occurring because there are more than one contributing factor.  It is much more complex than a simple P1 P2 equation in reality.

    The simple definition of P1 is the Probability that a Hazard is exposed in such a way that harm could occur, The figure tries to show that concept.  It does not show how a failure becomes a Hazard, that is another issue to discuss, but it may be simpler to describe.  It does not show how a Normal Condition results in a Hazard, which in many cases is a Usability issue.

    P2 is the probability that a Hazardous Situation (an exposed Hazard) can lead to harm, and it often consists of several types of harm.  As an example, a patient falling out of a hospital bed could get no injury, a contusion, a broken bone or a death (all taken from real MDR reports).  Each of these individual harms has its own probability of occurrence.  And all need to be documented in your risk analysis.

    So we are not talking about a simple situation or an easy and quick analysis, if you choose to go this route,  BUT, remember we are still in the ESTIMATE phase of risk management and usually are Qualitative Values.  These values do not become Quantitative until we have statistical confidence in the data to support Quantitative values of Probability.  For brand new products, that is after product release.  For follow on products, we may have sufficient data from our own predicate to support moving to qualitative immediately.  

    Hope this helps Kevin, and all that have entered this discussion.

    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills MEd, CQA, RAC, BSc, CQE, ASQ
    Principal Consultant
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    elb@edwinbillsconsultant.comPrincipal Consultant
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 13-Jun-2022 09:34
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Hello all,
    To decide probability is there any simple calculation , as to determine the probability of occurrence of harm is important or mandatory than probability of occurrence of hazardous situation
    As for some harm probability can not be established. 


    Regards


  • 10.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 13-Jun-2022 10:03

    First, ignore P1 and P2. They only illustrate a concept. They are not required.

    Estimate the components of risk using the definition. First determine the harm that occurs if the hazardous situation were to happen. There could be many different harms associated with a hazardous situation. Determine the severity of each harm. Then determine the probability of that harm occurring with the determined severity. Put these values into the risk matrix in the Risk Management Plan to estimate the risk.

    There are no calculations required. You could rely on historical data, published articles, registry data, the team's best guess, etc.

    In some cases, you cannot estimate the probability such as a use error. In those cases, the risk estimate uses severity only. The Risk Management Plan needs to cover this case.



    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 13-Jun-2022 11:04

    A couple of major points here:

    Probability of Occurrence of Harm can be either Quantitative or Qualitative. If you choose to use Quantitative, then you must have statistically valid data to support those values. Usually for new devices you cannot use Quantitative because of a lack of that statistically valid data. For devices in which you have historical data, such as in the case where you are updating a previous device that may be possible. 


    the purpose of P1 and P2 in the informative annexes(and not in the requirements) was to illustrate why the probability of a Hazard occurring was different from the probability of Harm occurring, and was shown for educational purposes and not as a requirement. In fact as shown in the illustration referred to earlier in this discussion chain in ISO TR 24971 Clause 5 it is often much more complex than a simple P1 and P2. 


    So, determining Probability is much more complex than just assigning a number. Most often in development of a device you start with Qualitative ranges for Probability (and there is a story behind that choice of a term instead of the more proper Likelihood) and once you have data from field experience then you switch to Quantitative. So early in development start with Qualitative ranges such as shown in the tables of 24971, then move to the Quantitative values. Too often developers want to jump on quantitative values cause they want exact values, which are often incorrect 

    Remember we are using Estimates in Risk Management, and it is usually not possible to get EXACT values. Don't waste time and energy trying to get these values. We are only doing this to support decision-making on risk reduction.


    And now with the regulatory requirements of the MDR/IVDR it is becoming less important to get these exact values because all risks must be reduced As Far As Possible, meaning use all possible risk controls to reduce risk. 



    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills MEd, CQA, RAC, BSc, CQE, ASQ
    Principal Consultant
    Member, ISO TC 210 JWG1
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    elb@edwinbillsconsultant.comPrincipal Consultant
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 13-Jun-2022 11:38
    Hello Den,

    Thanks you so much for your answer.
    It means need to determine the probability for that harm only.
    Not for hazardous situation.
    Now it's clear before risk control measure but after risk control measure how to decide probability, I think on the basis of definately Market complaints, feedbacks, literatures, pms data etc.
    I hope I am on the right track.
    Can you plz let me know what will be the rational for deciding severity. As as per standard I have given given severity from 1 to 5.

    Now it time to decide probability,  what will be rational for same.
    How to explain in my plan to decide probability.
    I used 24971 table starting from 1 to 5. Like 10 power -6 , then goes below.
    Plz help











  • 13.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 13-Jun-2022 11:56
    Check out this post and this post for additional explanation about P1 and the pitfalls of inappropriately dismissing it.

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Randall, ASQ CQA, RAC (U.S., Europe, Canada)
    Principal Consultant
    Ridgway, CO
    United States
    © Copyright 2022 by ComplianceAcuity, Inc. All rights reserved.
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 13-Jun-2022 13:17

    Remember that the risk of a harm has two components: severity and probability. They are closely related since you need the probability that the harm occurs with the stated severity. A burn provides a good example. The harm could be a burn which has three levels of severity. The probability of a first-degree burn will not be the probability of a second-degree burn, etc.

    A common approach is a five-point scale. You need good definitions for the scale so it is easy for the team to agree. Often a medical person can help.

    For severity, it is best to start with a five-point scale using definitions and not numbers. Typically, you need a lot of post-market data to use a numerical scale.

    The Risk Management Plan will have the severity and probability scales. It will also have a risk matrix that explains how to combine severity and probability to get a risk level. You will need this as part of risk evaluation to determine if the risk is acceptable or requires risk reduction.

    If you need risk reduction, start with the sequence of events. They lead to the hazardous situation, so you want to break the sequence. If there is no hazardous situation, there is no harm. Usually, this is hard. Your risk reduction measures should reduce the severity, the probability, or both. For the residual risk, use the same scales and the same risk matrix. You want to get into the best box possible in the risk matrix. You also want that box to be in the acceptable risk region.



    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 13-Jun-2022 17:27

    Remember Severity of Harm includes people, property, and the environment. For people, the best choice is a qualitative scale of 4 or 5 levels based on the definitions of severity found in either the FDA Medical Device Reporting regulation 21 CFR 803 such as Critical-fatality or non reversible serious injury; Serious-medically reversible serious injury; Major-injury with minor medical intervention; Moderate-injury not requiring medical intervention; Minor-No injury, or other such description. These descriptions should along with the vigilance reporting systems of FDA, EC, and other regulatory bodies where you distribute product. This alignment will help your pot-market activities align with the design processes and make these processes more seamless. 

    Based on feed back from the EC, I would avoid setting acceptable regions, as Notified Bodies don't like the use of "Acceptable Risk".  The risks must each individually be reduced As Far As Possible without impacting the Benefit to Risk ratio. Notified Bodies think if you have established an Acceptable region, you can stop reducing risk when you reach that region, which does not meet the regulatory requirements. Also in that scheme each risk must be treated individually as to when to stop risk reduction, there is no universal "acceptable" line to cross.

    Be sure you have a copy of ISO TR 24971:2020, as most of what has been discussed in this chain is covered in that 85 page guidance document which is a good aid in understanding ISO 14971:2019 and the topics are aligned  so if you want more on Clause 5 on Risk Analysis in 14971, then go to Clause 5 in 24971.  The Annexes A to the end are cross-cutting topics that cover multiple numbered clauses in the standard.

    Wish you the best on this journey, I am starting to understand medical device risk management after 22 years on the standards committee.  I am by no means an expert, but I do have contact information for those that know certain aspects of medical device risk management!  



    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills MEd, CQA, RAC, BSc, CQE, ASQ
    Principal Consultant
    Member, ISO TC 210 JWG1
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    elb@edwinbillsconsultant.comPrincipal Consultant
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 10:35
    Thanks sir for your reply.

    But as the question is regarding probability, if we consider harm for probability definately like probability of occurrence of harm and severity of that harm.
    For ex there are multiple hazardous situation for which there is only one harm or may be two which have same severity level.
    1. Now the question is if we put single harm in front of single hazardous situation or we can put more than one hazardous situation in one column for single harm.
    2. We decide severy and probability for that harm only, now again probability of harm is totally depend on probability of occurrence of hazardous situation.
    3. If we put more than hazardous situation in one column with different probability  for one harm then again question arises how you set the probability.
    4. The above question is before taking risk control measure but after risk control measure how to decide the probability and severity. On the basis of harm ,single harm , more than one hazardous situation in one column. Because we can not reduce probability of harm only can reduce occurrence of hazardous situation.
    5. Yes definately on the basis of harm for particular hazardous situation I have to consider.
    6. Now again each hazardous situation there must be only single harm which will not create confusion only will make work lengthy, as there are many hazardous situation for one harm. Or more than one harm can be occurred with only one hazardous situation ,it's vice versa.
    Really it's quite confusing and auditors ask these Cross question.
    Plz reply 







  • 17.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 11:16

    There is a process flow in the standard. If you use an Excel worksheet, there is a column for each process step and a row for each combination of hazard, sequence of events, hazardous situation, harm, severity of the harm, probability of the harm with the stated severity, and estimated initial risk. (There are other columns, but not relevant to this discussion.)

    In conducting risk management follow the process steps in order. Don't change the order of the steps, or you will create confusion.

    Start with a list of  hazards that apply to your device.

    For each hazard, develop a sequence of events. Any given hazard could have more than sequence of events. In addition, one sequence could have a fault condition, another could be normal operation, another could have a use error, etc. They don't all necessarily occur, but this will guide your thinking.

    Each sequence of events leads to a hazardous situation. Describe it succinctly.

    The hazardous situation leads to harm. In this response, I consider harm to the patient or user only. There are other things for which harm could occur.

    There could be more than one harm from the hazardous situation. Put each of them in a separate row.

    A harm could occur with different levels of severity. For example, a thermal burn could be first, second, or third degree. Each is a severity level.

    A harm's severity happens with a probability. Think of this as a rate. For example a patient has a first degree burn one time in every 12,500 uses.

    Use the risk matrix from your Risk Management Plan to estimate the initial risk, i.e., the risk before risk control measures.

    Risk control measures reduce the severity or probability or both of the harm. For example, the device has a hot surface which results in a first degree burn if touched. Estimate how often the patient or user would touch the hot surface to get the frequency of the first-degree burn. Pick "information for safety" as a risk control measure by adding a sticker that says "Hot surface – do not touch". The severity stays the same, but the probability deceases because the patient or user heeds the sticker. This is a reduction in the residual risk (with sticker) from the initial risk (without sticker).



    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 11:55
    "A harm could occur with different levels of severity. For example, a thermal burn could be first, second, or third degree. Each is a severity level."

    Hi as per above sentence it is not applicable for us, for example I take one harm may be restenosis then it's severity will remain same whatever the situation is.
    Because ultimately restenosis will occur which comes in category of critical.

    Yes I can understand for what you said about hazardous situation like if the situation probability is rare then severity will reduce , but it will not as severity of that harm is high, no matter what the probability is.
    That's why I am asking how to decide probability, on the basis of harm or situation.

    Because I can not change severity for any disease occurs due to any situation. Ya there is possibility that how harm will occur with particular situation but yes medical expert can help in this case.







  • 19.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 12:11

    When thinking about probability, remove the hazardous situation from your mind. It doesn't enter into the analysis.

    In the standard, risk estimation use the severity of the harm and the probability that the harm occurs with that severity. If your harms have only one severity, that helps simplify the analysis.

    You said, "if the situation probability is rare then severity will reduce". This is not correct. First, hazardous situation isn't involved. Second, you have to determine the harm's severity and how often it happens. Severity determines probability, not the other way around.

    Very often, when the harm occurs it has the same severity, so the risk control measures need to either prevent the harm or to lower the probability.



    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 12:33

    The answer is you put them where they occur and do not overthink the organization of your documents. The standard has a process flow built in, that is identifying hazards, then determining the exposure of these hazards such that harm can occur (this is an important step to understanding not only how harm can occur, but also where you can place risk controls to break the hazard to harm pathway) and then what types of harm can occur to people, property and the environment as a result of THAT EXPOSURE, and don't try to connect Hazardous Situations where no realistic connections occur. 


    I am a visual learner and like to draw pictures to help me understand the situation. If the picture does not show a connection then don't try to create one. Just document what you have found and stop. 

    One of the aspects of risk management that is so often overlooked all over the process, is "why are we doing this?".  We want to make decisions to reduce risk, and time spent with all this clutter is time wasted from improving our products to improve safety. So don't overthink your documents and their organization where it does not lead to product improvement



    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills MEd, CQA, RAC, BSc, CQE, ASQ
    Principal Consultant
    Member, ISO TC 210 JWG1
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    elb@edwinbillsconsultant.comPrincipal Consultant
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 12:59
    Ok thanks sir for input.

    I hope it will work out.

    Regards 





  • 22.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 15-Jun-2022 16:01

    No, don't "hope it will all work out", it is risk management science. Follow the steps that have been developed over the last 25+years for medical devices and it WILL WORK. 

    As we have referred to ISO TR 24971:2020 guidance throughout this discussion, make sure you have the document and USE IT. 

    We all will be here if you have more questions. If you get a chance, there are some good courses in this area you might want to take, including the AAMI risk management course, for disclosure, I teach that course, and one taught by Peter Sebellius of Medical Device HQ. Peter is on LinkedIn also, as am I. I am the co-Moderator of the Medical Device Risk Management group there as well. 

    Best Wishes in your journey and if you have questions, just ask!



    ------------------------------
    Edwin Bills MEd, CQA, RAC, BSc, CQE, ASQ
    Principal Consultant
    Overland Park KS
    United States
    elb@edwinbillsconsultant.comPrincipal Consultant
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 17-Jun-2022 12:35
    Thanks sir.

    I  will definately take the benefit from the guidance provided by you.

    Now the question is regarding the "identification of characteristics related to safety of the medical device "
    As per 24971 the questionnaire is provided in annexure A. 
    So is it enough to give the answer or need to list out hazard for each and every question which is applicable for the device?

    For ex. Is the device intended to be implanted. 

    Then answer is 'yes'

    Now do  we need to write the hazard too.

    As the heading of Annexure A is "identification of hazards and characteristics related to safety "

    Plz give your input





  • 24.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 17-Jun-2022 14:10
    Please note that Annex A of TR/ISO 24971:2020 is intended to be informative, providing guidance on a method for identification of hazards and characteristics related to safety, rather than acting as an exhaustive list. From the guidance, "These lists are neither exhaustive nor representative of all medical devices, and the manufacturer is advised to add questions that can have applicability to the particular medical device and to skip questions that are not relevant. The manufacturer is also advised to consider each question not only on its own but also in relation to others." Here it is important to note that the individual answers to the questions should inform how others are considered, as well as the beginning of consideration for each topic.

    Using your example above regarding implantation of a device, A.2.2 calls out additional factors that could result in an impact to safety. The intended use of the device and intended population is likely going to have significant implications regarding relevant hazards (sources of harm). A medical device such as an LVAD is going to be a temporary implant until a patient can receive a transplant, therefore risk related to failure of the device even momentarily can be catastrophic.

    It is not sufficient to simply answer the questions, but to also consider why each is important to answer and what other questions can branch out from there.

    ------------------------------
    Christopher Erwin
    Scottsdale AZ
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 17-Jun-2022 23:29
    Hello sir,
    Thanks for the input.

    Ya you are absolutely right. And definately this is informative only and we can add or remove questions applicable to our device.
    But the question was different.

    The question is do we need to mention hazards while answering the questions?

    As there may be many hazards related to one question.

    Regards







  • 26.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 18-Jun-2022 07:02
    You do not need to mention the hazards while answering the question in the Annex.

    However, you should answer them as a team and keep notes about hazards and harms. You will then develop them for the analysis.

    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: ISO 14971 P2 vs P3

    Posted 17-Jun-2022 14:44

    You should out the answer to each question in ISO/TR 24971:2020 and put them in the Risk Management File. This is the kind of objective evidence that regulators expect.

    When you answer the questions, it should be a joint effort of people on the risk management team. Use this as an opportunity think about hazards and harms. Take good notes, so you can use them in the subsequent analysis.

    If you have an implantable device, for example, think about what could cause patient or user harm such as sterility or toxicity. Are there specific steps in the IFU to follow? Are there warning or precautions to include.



    ------------------------------
    Dan O'Leary CQA, CQE
    Swanzey NH
    United States
    ------------------------------