Roger gets it (as usual).
The MDR and IVDR, whose definitions for importer and distributor are basic copies of Europe's longstanding regulatory definitions, don't permit the same person to be both the MDR/IVDR importer and the distributor
for the same making available (i.e., for the same device unit or shipment).
Yet in this conversation
and the prior one about Europe's distinctions and intentions for importers vs. distributors, we continue to see a relentlessly-entrenched position that repeatedly refuses to address these terms, or to correctly address these terms, in
Europe's longstanding, well-defined terminology (i.e., in terms of "making available on the market"). Instead is a relentless insistence to only discuss "importer" and "distributor" in commonplace dictionary terms. And in those terms, as has been repeatedly stated before,
yes, the same person can both import and distribute medical devices. But that doesn't mean such person has triggered both of Europe's corresponding regulatory definitions for a particular making available.
So far in this discussion or
the preceding discussion when an opinion from an NB, or some consulting firm, or some other opinion was lodged, no one has yet produced objective defensible evidence showing that the question was asked and answered in
Europe's terms of making available on the market. Instead, we continue to only get answers based on generalized dictionary definitions. That approach woefully fails to address Europe's regulatory definitions and requirements for importers vs. distributors.
I'm going to step out here: Mark my word: I promise you, that the Commission will not agree that the same person can be both the MDR/IVDR importer and distributor
for the same making available (i.e., for the same device unit/shipment). That fact is the heart of these European definitions, and these European definitions are deliberately not equivalent to the common dictionary definitions. This is a longstanding European precedent, and that remains true regardless of the constant, mostly American, groupthink demanding that we use these terms in our own way rather than in Europe's way.
Europe's underlying precedent also doesn't agree with the erroneous assertion that if a person meets the Article 13 importer requirements, then that somehow acts as a surrogate for the Article 14 distributor obligations, or vice versa. Just because the Article 13 and 14 obligations are very similar, don't be fooled into thinking that one can be a surrogate for the other for a given making available on the market (i.e., for a particular device unit/shipment). If you do, then you're forgetting and/or dismissing the reminder that was included in the other discussion: Specifically, Europe's MDR/IVDR obligations for importers and distributors are intended to, where applicable, assure a proper chronological series of checks-and-balances on an individual product unit's/shipment's conformity during that product unit's/shipment's journey from manufacturer to end user. This is a longstanding staple of Europe's common framework for the marketing or products.
Finally, Roger has again accurately conveyed a proper understanding of "placing on the market", "making available on the market", "putting into service", etc. For example, a device unit/shipment is absolutely, unequivocally, indubitably NOT put into service when it is delivered into a distributor's warehouse.
Europe's terminology is specific and deliberate. That longstanding terminology was forged because Europe in fact DOES understand the realities of medical device logistics. Europe aims for proper checks-and-balances at all steps of the logistics process. If we allow ourselves to conclude that the Europeans failed to fully consider the realities of the logistics process, then we're showing that we haven't fully considered the principles that are so clearly explained in European gold standards like the Blue Guide and Europe's common framework for the marketing of products.
------------------------------
Kevin Randall, ASQ CQA, RAC (Europe, U.S., Canada)
Principal Consultant
Ridgway, CO
United States
© Copyright 2021 by ComplianceAcuity, Inc. All rights reserved.
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Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 13:04
From: Anne LeBlanc
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Right. There's no reason an importer can't distribute the products they're importing. That's presumably the reason they're importing them.
------------------------------
Anne LeBlanc
United States
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 11:46
From: Ed Panek
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Exactly, so where is the authority to not permit this agreement? If I sign the same company in EU to be my importer and distributor and our NB approves our device to be marketed in EU under MDR, and I start selling tomorrow, what happens?
Our NB has written us stating this arrangement is acceptable.
------------------------------
Edward Panek
VP, QA/RA
Med Device
USN Veteran
Research into Neural Nets - https://www.twitch.tv/edosani
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 09:22
From: Roger Gray
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Yes, Ed, but not importer and distributor, because distributors don't need to register with Eudamed.
------------------------------
Roger Gray
VP Quality and Regulatory
Donawa Lifescience Ltd
UK Responsible Person services
Christchurch, UK
+44 1425 489208
rgray@donawa.com
www.donawa.com
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 09:16
From: Ed Panek
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Eudamed explicitly allows one company to be both importer and rep.
------------------------------
Edward Panek
VP, QA/RA
Med Device
USN Veteran
Research into Neural Nets - https://www.twitch.tv/edosani
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 07:03
From: Roger Gray
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Richard, I think the problem is in your paragraph that reads:
"Moyar then gets customer orders from their own customers for Heydelhorn products in countries Germany, Italy, or Spain. Moyar then ships these products from their warehouse which is 'putting these products into service.' In fact, Moyar could also be importing and distributing products for company Domhalarn (from Mexico) and Koykili (from Japan)."
You say "Moyar then ships these products from their warehouse which is 'putting these products into service." This is not my understanding, and does not agree with the Blue Guide. An importer who supplies to an end user is still, at that stage, 'placing on the market', not 'putting into service'.
The same is true for Moyar importing from Mexico and Japan - when they supply these devices direct to end users, they are not acting as a 'distributor' as defined in the MDR/IVDR, they are acting as an importer who is supplying devices to another entity. It doesn't matter if that entity is a distributor or an end user, the importer is still, at that stage 'placing on the market' the devices concerned, because this will be 'the first making available', per MDR definition #28.
So under the circumstances you describe for Moyar, they should have procedures for meeting the requirements of MDR/IVDR Article 13, but also procedures for being a downstream supplier of devices, with all the attendant customer service implications, but meeting MDR/IVDR Article 14 is not one of those responsibilities.
------------------------------
Roger Gray
VP Quality and Regulatory
Donawa Lifescience Ltd
UK Responsible Person services
Christchurch, UK
+44 1425 489208
rgray@donawa.com
www.donawa.com
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 06:06
From: Richard Vincins
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Hi Roger,
I know ... and I did not comment on the other thread. The wording in the EU MDR/IVDR for definitions of Importer and Distributor do not take into account what actually happens in the real world. And sadly the authors of the EU MDR/IVDR are in their own little bubble writing the regulation not understanding what happens in the real world.
Let me give you a scenario:
Legal Manufacturer 'Heydelhorn' is located in Chicago, Illinois, United States.
The company Heydelhorn is using a company called 'Moyar' located in Brussels, Belgium.
Moyar is a receiving company, bonded agent, warehouse facility, and distributor of goods including medical devices.
Heydelhorn has contracted with Moyar for importing goods into Europe and ships the physical medical devices to them; there is also a financial transaction for the goods. Moyar receives the products in their warehouse from a third party shipping company who has nothing to do with the product but ship and transport. Moyar is therefore 'placing the product on the market.' The product is shipped to Moyar and kept in their own warehouse.
Moyar then gets customer orders from their own customers for Heydelhorn products in countries Germany, Italy, or Spain. Moyar then ships these products from their warehouse which is 'putting these products into service.' In fact, Moyar could also be importing and distributing products for company Domhalarn (from Mexico) and Koykili (from Japan). Moyar takes customer orders for all these products, takes customer complaint calls, and manages inventory to the direct end users. These customers are Moyar's customers and not Heydelhorn, Domhalarn, or Koykili.
This does happen in the real world. The definitions break-down as companies do act as importers and distributors.
So how is the company Moyar not an importer and a distributor? I know the definition says: 'distributor means any natural or legal person in the supply chain, other than the manufacturer or the importer ...' But I have time after time seen where this is not the case. In fact, it is more common in large corporate companies where they have a subsidiary or sister company in Europe doing exactly this - doing both importing product and distributing product as they "own" the product once received. So legal manufacturers have to go find some other third party company acting as their Importer? I am sorry to say companies will not do this and already this does not happen. And what company would have two entities "inside" their company with two different processes being an importer and a distributor? No company would do this.
I can agree what the definitions in the EU MDR/IVDR and Blue Guide say, but I can also disagree saying that is not what happens in reality. There are companies completing the roles as both importer and distributor of medical devices.
------------------------------
Richard Vincins RAC
Vice President Global Regulatory Affairs
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 05:33
From: Roger Gray
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
I'm sorry, Richard, but this was not the conclusion of the previous discussion. The roles of importer and distributor are mutually exclusive., and this is confirmed by the definitions of the terms in the MDR/IVDR and Blue Guide.
An importer is able to 'place devices on the EU market' by supplying them to either a distributor or an end user. However, an importer supplying devices to an end user does not become a 'distributor', as defined by the MDR/IVDR.
So to answer Anon's initial question, his appointed importer does not become a 'distributor', as defined, by supplying devices directly to customers, so the importer has to meet the requirements of IVDR Article 13, but not Article 14.
The agreement Anon's company has with the importer should, however, cover both onward supply routes, one to distributors and the other to end users.
------------------------------
Roger Gray
VP Quality and Regulatory
Donawa Lifescience Ltd
UK Responsible Person services
Christchurch, UK
+44 1425 489208
rgray@donawa.com
www.donawa.com
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 04:03
From: Richard Vincins
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Hello,
What Enrico said is basically it: an importer can also take on the roles of a distributor. These responsibilities are outlined in Article 13 and 14 which as stated some overlap. This means there does not need to be two steps "2-steps" in the process for getting product in Europe, but the single entity can just ensure all of those requirements are being met which cover Article 13 and 14. As with anything in a quality system, the important aspect is making sure documentation of the process and records are maintained for these activities to show they are being completed.
------------------------------
Richard Vincins RAC
Vice President Global Regulatory Affairs
Original Message:
Sent: 26-Oct-2021 02:38
From: Enrico Schurig
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
Hello,
There was another discussion about this 10 days ago. To me understanding of that discussion the outcome was:
If the company is acting as importer and distributor it would be defined by MDR/IVDR as an importer and would have to fulfill article 13 for importers. If the company is only acting a distributor then it would be a distributor under MDR/IVDR and needs to fulfill article 14. The article 13 includes all responsibility of article 14 although the wording differs a bit.
Somebody may correct me if my conclusion of that previous discussion is wrong....
Kind regards,
------------------------------
Enrico Schurig
Le Mont-sur-Lausanne
Switzerland
Original Message:
Sent: 25-Oct-2021 00:42
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Importer and Distributor under the IVDR
This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
Hello,
Hoping for some thoughts on this query relating to the IVDR:
We are an non-EU manufacturer supplying IVDs into the union. The organisation we have lined up to be the appointed importer in the union will also be distributing the products there, either directly to the customers or to 3rd party distributors.
My question is around the joint role of importer and distributor. Both of these roles are well defined in the IVDR and include the "verification' of the previous step in the supply chain. Since both these roles will be conducted by the same entity, i assume there needs to be separate processes at the site that covers both the importer responsibilities and then the distributor. In reality, it will be same people performing the roles. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to handle this? How do we effectively capture the verification the distributor makes on the importer if its the same organization doing both? I also think it prudent to have separate agreements in place between us and the company, one for the importer responsibilities and one for the distributor rather than combining them in one. Thoughts?
Kind Regards
Thanks