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FDA Registered

  • 1.  FDA Registered

    Posted 27-Jan-2019 20:48
    Team,

    I have come across several cosmetic devices that are listed as "FDA Registered".  Of course those devices listed as such don't have a 510(k), and I know registration with the FDA is voluntary, but is there some other reason/requirement for a cosmetic device to be registered? 


    Please advise.


    Thank you,
    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Jan-2019 09:09
    Hi Laura!

    I truly love some of your questions because they bring up some of the significant problems with these sorts of products.  My best guess is that these devices that you are finding are potentially Class I general controls devices similar to bandages or scissors for medical use.  The companies have likely "notified" FDA of their intent to continue marketing these products and are currently marketing them for what they believe is cosmetic use.  Or they are looking to make some low level medical claims on the devices that would require a medical device registration with the FDA along with a device listing of even the Class I devices.  Other than that, in my opinion, the claim "FDA Registered" is likely to get some significant eyebrow raises from folks at the FDA.  While it might take a bit for the agency to catch up with these sorts of claims, it is very likely at some point that FDA will begin to take issue with these sorts of claims if they are in any way inaccurate or misleading to the consumer.​

    ------------------------------
    Victor Mencarelli
    Director Regulatory Affairs
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Jan-2019 10:31
    Victor,

    Thank you.  I am happy you feel that way because prior to asking, I was a bit skeptical.  LOL.  That said, when I came across those "devices" that are listed as such, they certainly piqued my interest because to me it was, like you mentioned, a low level form of marketing the product in a way that to the customer would either interpret it to mean that the cosmetic is cleared/approved by FDA.  I think it is only a matter of time that the FDA catches on, if in fact they aren't registered voluntarily or even as Class I devices meant for cosmetic use.

    Kathleen, I am actually in the process of getting an additive batch certified by FDA as it is one of the additives subject to certification prior to its use in cosmetics to be marketed here.  I am certainly gaining experience in that area, even though it has been challenging to communicate this requirement to management.

    Thank you both for the feedback.  


    Laura 


    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 07:28
    Hi Laura

    You are correct these companies are trying low-level marketing to make customers think FDA cleared or approved them.  And there are all sorts of prohibitions around advertising your 510(k) clearance without clearly explaining in the same area the difference between a clearance and an approval. It is misbranding.

    I have seen many companies try to use FDA logos on their product label/labeling (a definite no no). One was caught and that was one of the inspection findings in their warning letter.

    Anyway, good luck. PM me if you want a copy of that WL as an example for your management.

    ------------------------------
    Ginger Cantor, MBA, RAC
    Founder/Principal Consultant
    Centaur Consulting LLC
    River Falls, Wisconsin 54022 USA
    715-307-1850
    centaurconsultingllc@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Jan-2019 09:55
    Hi Laura:
    The FDA Registered may apply to the FDA's voluntary registration for cosmetic firms.  
    Cosmetics themselves do not require registration and approval/clearance but certain ingredients such as colorants added to the product may be regulated.  Any claim must be substantiated to avoid the product being deemed adulterated or misbranded.  Labeling must not be misleading.
    There are products that are cosmetic in nature that may contain and ingredient that make it a drug rather than a cosmetic.
    I hope this helps.
    Regards, 
    Kathleen

    https://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/RegistrationProgram/default.htm

    ------------------------------
    Kathleen O'Sullivan, M.S., M.S.J., RAC
    Franklin Lakes, NJ
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 10:18
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 29-Jan-2019 10:28

    As we all know, whether or not a device is a medical device or a cosmetic device depends on intended use.  Of course, FDA doesn't help maintain this critical distinction by describing dermal fillers as "cosmetic devices," which are approved via the PMA process. I haven't ever read the argument for why filling a wrinkle fits the legal definition of a medical device, but I expect it's a very entertaining read.

    If these are in fact cosmetic devices, then the claim is probably a reference to the Voluntary Cosmetic Registration Program (VCRP).  Or, if you have ever taken a close look at the many products on Amazon, eBay, etc, with FDA-related claims, maybe they never even heard of the VCRP, and are just making stuff up:

    "FDA Lipstick: Our Lip Gloss all have FDA test. Materials are Warranted and Trusted."

    As far as reasons for a cosmetic device to be registered, FDA says that VCRP is not a cosmetic approval program and, in a charming display of hope and denial, that it is not a promotional tool, either.  FDA doesn't claim that registration offers any direct benefits to registrants or the users of their products, but instead describes the VCRP as helpful to FDA. You can decide for yourself how many cosmetic companies want to help FDA versus be able to tell their customers that their products are "FDA registered."

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Durham, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 10:47
    I love it ! 'A charming display of hope and denial'..

    Thank you for the laugh Julie- I laughed out loud.... Need it today because today and tomorrow are starting at -20  temps and going lower, much lower, with windchills! 

    Ginger






  • 8.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 11:42
    That was hilarious Julie.  I have come across several of these products on Amazon that make so many medical claims and I am surprised really that these have not been "dealt" with if you will.  That was a good laugh indeed.


    Thank you Ginger, you guys are the best! I will message you for that WL for sure.  Would serve as a great tool to argue/defend my case.  


    Thank you,
    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 12:02
    Hi Julie.

    Having worked in this space for nearly 30 years I too had a laugh at your commentary!  The problem is that it is so true that it is almost laughable!  But I will make one correction to your comment about VCRP that, while accurate to FDA's thinking does actually mistakenly portray the VCRP as something of little or no use to the industry.

    While FDA believes the program is helpful for understanding product information and potentially useful for finding buried safety signals in the products from cosmetics manufacturers, there is one use that is of HUGE benefit to the industry.  The Cosmetic Ingredient Review Expert Panel (CIR) uses that database and the information contained therein as their initial point of prioritizing cosmetic ingredients to undergo their standard review for safety and toxicity.  These reviews are published in peer reviewed journals and are the basis many times of the initial safety substantiation for products and formulas so that animal testing can be avoided and testing on humans can proceed.  While this might seem a slight benefit, I can tell you as someone in the area for this long that it is amazingly helpful to the industry to be able to say that an independent group of medical, toxicological, chemical, pharmacological and patient experts has found sufficient data to explicitly state that an ingredient is "safe as presently used" in a peer reviewed journal using tried-and-true assessment techniques to defending the use of specific ingredients in a formulation.

    Also, while I completely agree and understand that the current situation is "voluntary" if you have been following the continuing saga of cosmetic legislation, regulation and review of requirements it seems that just about any legislation that I have seen to modernize the cosmetic regulatory scheme in the US would change that "voluntary" program into a "required" program with registration and ingredient listing, similar to what is currently done on the pharma side of the regulated industry in the near future.​

    ------------------------------
    Victor Mencarelli
    Director Regulatory Affairs
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 21:11
    ​​I'm glad you all enjoyed my post; I know I had fun writing it.  (Why some people think RA is droll and dry, I cannot fathom.  To me it is The Most Fun Ever.)

    Victor, points well taken.  I should clarify that FDA's comments were about the benefits of registration, rather than the value of the end result.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Durham, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Jan-2019 21:42
    Actually the argument isn't that entertaining.

    It's right there in the definition:

    "A medical device is defined within the Food Drug & Cosmetic Act as "...an instrument, apparatus, implement, machine, contrivance, implant, in vitro reagent, or other similar or related article, including a component part, or accessory which is: recognized in the official National Formulary, or the United States Pharmacopoeia, or any supplement to them, intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, in man or other animals, or intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals."

    Ii other  words, if you are claiming to change the shape of the body in any way and the vehicle for doing so is not an ointment, cream or lotion but instead achieves its function by some mechanical means (i.e. filler) then it's a device.

    In this case it's not about the claim - if the claim is cosmetic in nature but the function is achieved by means of a mechanism of action associated with a device, then it's a device, not a cosmetic.

    ------------------------------
    Jean Bigoney PhD, RAC, CQE
    Regulatory Affairs Specialist
    Morrisville
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 30-Jan-2019 09:17
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 30-Jan-2019 09:18
    That would certainly be the phrase I'd choose, if only by default. 

    The problem I see with this is the long rows of products on the shelf of any drug store that make the claim to achieve the same purpose ("eliminates fine lines and wrinkles")​ by chemical means, and which are not regulated by FDA. Perhaps someone else knows the history of this, but it's hard for me to imagine that there was no argument, unless the manufacturers were already on their knees from lost revenues and litigation by the time FDA worked its way through the matter, and had nothing left to fight FDA with. Or for.

    Regardless of what arguments were or could have been made, I'm inclined to see this as an example of FDA deciding (or being told) to regulate something because it was seen as being in dire need of regulation, regardless of what the Act said. In the end, it's always as much or more about political will as it is the law.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Durham, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 11:03
    Jean,

    You bring up an excellent point there in that it is not about the claim, but the mechanism by which you achieve the claim therefore makes it a device.  

    What if then the intended use is for cosmetic purposes, but the mechanism has a medical purpose? How do we then handle this?


    Please advise.....


    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 11:41
    FDA's regulatory definitions do a fair amount of ​mixing of apples and oranges, so it gets confusing.

    The mechanism distinguishes a device (mechanical) from a drug (chemical).  It does not, as far as I know, distinguish either one from a cosmetic.  Instead, the claim distinguishes a cosmetic (cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering the appearance) from a drug or a medical device (long-winded definition -> "a medical purpose.")

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Durham, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 12:07
    So Julie, I am correct to assume that though microcurrent is used for medical purposes or "cosmetic-medical" purposes that are known to affect structure i.e. removal of or erasing of wrinkles, then if we are to use it for beautifying purposes with zero medical claims, then it is a non-medical device, regardless of the fact that it is known to have some effect on the body?  

    I ask only because I see so many cleared and un-cleared devices that use microcurrent technology and make the similar claims, some of which (are on Amazon of course), that aren't cleared.

    I hope my point is clear as it can get confusing.


    Thanks,
    Laura 








  • 16.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 12:39
    Edited by Jean Bigoney 31-Jan-2019 17:34
    Unless something drastic has changed at the Agency, a product which claims to alter the structure of the human body and which relies on a physical or mechanical means as opposed to a chemical or metabolic means is considered a device. You cannot escape playing by CDRH rules by stating it is for "cosmetic purposes."

    I had the experience a few years ago of getting a panic call from someone carrying a suitcase of plastic masks from Canada to the US. These masks had apertures to hold magnets which were located at accupuncture points. The manufacturer claimed that by putting magnets into the mask and wearing the mask, a "lifting" result could be achieved.

    Needless to say, he was stopped at customs. The FDA inspector took issue with the website, which had testimonials from customers claiming that these masks had helped relieved symptoms of toothache etc in addition to having a facelifting effect.

    The customs location was near my office, so he called me. Like Julie, I thought about the rows of cosmetics that made all kinds of claims to "lift" "rejuvenate" "reduce the appearance of wrinkles" etc. and that this was surely a cosmetic. Weeks later after conferring with people at various divisions of FDA, I learned that this is considered a device, period. FDA/VCRP wanted no part of this and CDRH said that if he wanted to make those claims, he would need a 510(k).

    The FD&C Act defines cosmetics by their intended use, as "articles intended to be rubbed, poured, sprinkled, or sprayed on, introduced into, or otherwise applied to the human body...for cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering the appearance". They don't say it explicitly, but the intent is that this refers to ointments, lotions, creams and similar. If the product emits electromagnetic fields, imparts heat, energy, radiation, kinetic energy or similar, they will consider it a device, regardless of claims that make it clear that it is not intended for use relating to a medical ailment or condition.

    ------------------------------
    Jean Bigoney PhD, RAC, CQE
    Regulatory Affairs Specialist
    Morrisville
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 12:59
    Jean,

    This is the question I have been wanting answered for the longest time.  If it imparts heat, and has other energy etc., it will be considered a device, irrespective of the claims attached to it.  I have been in limbo about this because there are several devices out there with LED, micro current etc., that have cosmetic claims, etc., and are not regulated as devices and hence the reason I was confused.

    Thank you for providing me with this very clear and succinct and very enlightening information. 


    Regards,
    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 13:16
    "If it imparts heat, and has other energy etc., it will be considered a device, irrespective of the claims attached to it"

    ​If that were the case, then lightbulbs, stoves, and thousands of other products would be regulated by FDA, but they are not.  And again, as far as I know, FDA does not regulate "devices."

    I'm going to have to let this one go now.  Hope my comments have been more enlightening than confusing, but it's a very murky area, IMO.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Durham, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 13:41
    Agreed Julie. 

    Jean,

    Is there a reference to that in any of the regulations? I would like to have a reference to at least share if need be.  The reference I am looking for is the one where if it imparts heat etc., then it is a device.

    Please advise.


    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 14:26
    Laura

    I'm not aware of a specific regulation with that statement.

    I was using that as an example of something that is clearly a device based on an understanding of physics and engineering.

    Maybe the examples from warning letters can help.

    https://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ComplianceEnforcement/WarningLetters/ucm081141.htm

    ------------------------------
    Jean Bigoney PhD, RAC, CQE
    Regulatory Affairs Specialist
    Morrisville
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 14:41
    Ahhhh, got it. Thank you.  That helps!

    What a dynamic discussion this was!



    Cheers,
    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 14:37
    Edited by Jean Bigoney 31-Jan-2019 17:33
    If that were the case, then lightbulbs, stoves, and thousands of other products would be regulated by FDA, but they are not.  And again, as far as I know, FDA does not regulate "devices."

    As long as those lightbulbs aren't doing anything other than provide illumunation and stoves anything other than cook food, FDA has no jurisdiction. 

    If they are being marketed with the claim of being "intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, in man or other animals, or intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals," then they become devices. It's the "affect the structure" part that triggers the regulatory requirement. Even if the manufacturer says "it's only cosmetic," the Agency will see it differently.

    Here is an example of lightbulbs being considered a device and getting a warning letter :
    https://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm381666.htm

    The irony is that there are LED devices cleared for acne treatment, so the technology concept is accepted by FDA.


    ------------------------------
    Jean Bigoney PhD, RAC, CQE
    Regulatory Affairs Specialist
    Morrisville
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 15:41
    So that said Jean, I think what really needs to be defined in my case would be what is considered "affecting structure" as opposed to altering appearance.  In the case of wrinkles, where today even when the claim is changing the appearance of the wrinkles it is deemed as medical in nature.  My interpretation of that would be altering appearance.  

    So, what terms in terms of cosmetics would we say affects structure other than lifting? If I were to claim that the product tones the face.  Would that be affecting structure or altering appearance? 


    What are your thoughts? Canada is great in that it has a resource where one can reference things they deem as cosmetic claims and therapeutic claims.  It is a bit more difficult navigating the US's.


    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 17:16
    "Tones the face?"

    That almost sounds like a physical fitness claim. Fitness devices and medical devices also have gray area between them.

    Even though this is a scintillating discussion, I think I may have to bow out. Statements like "lift" or "reduce wrinkles" are unambiguous. Saying "reduces the appearance of wrinkles" or "tones" takes it to a place where I am not sure how the Agency would see it.

    Sorry I can't be of more help!

    ------------------------------
    Jean Bigoney PhD, RAC, CQE
    Regulatory Affairs Specialist
    Morrisville
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 17:22
    Jean this has been great regulatory feedback and insight! 


    Thank you!

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 01-Feb-2019 08:42
    OK ladies, I am going to jump back in here.

    Tones and "reduces the appearance of" type claims have always to my knowledge (been doing this 25 years in this specific space) been seen as a cosmetic benefit claim.  Jean is correct that "lifting" or "reducing wrinkles" would then be considered a structural claim that would fall out of cosmetic and definitely into either drug, device or combination product.

    The thing I have found the most interesting is that there are some very major players in this space that in my opinion have essentially created a combination drug-device product out of simple creams and applicators because of the way the benefits of the product have been described.  Some of them have been called to task in ways like Warning Letters and Untitled Letters as Jean pointed out.  However, many of them have not.

    My thought is that the claim determines the classification more than the mechanism of action.  However, FDA has repeatedly said (I have been on panels with FDA senior cosmetics office leadership for each of the last 4 years at conferences where it is has been consistently brought up!) that they review the entirety of the presentation and the benefit information in making any determination as to classification.  To Jean's earlier point about the definition of cosmetics, while I would generally agree with you that the definition would appear to be geared specifically towards creams, ointments, lotions, powders, etc., the fact is that you can "apply" a device to the face if you parse the definition of "apply" at all.  Essentially rolling a roller on your skin is an "application" of the roller.

    Laura, I would highly recommend that if you and your company are not currently part of the Independent Cosmetics Manufacturers and Distributors (ICMAD) trade group it might be well-worth your company's time and money.  They host 2 separate regulatory conferences each year (1 is in a 2-day conference in the LA area the week of 2/18 this year and the other is in NYC in mid-May) where FDA has been featured speakers.  In fact, the one in NY where I have presented for the past few years is actually co-sponsored by FDA and regularly we get Dr. Linda Katz (Director of the Office of Cosmetics and Colors) and usually 1 or 2 other speakers from FDA (2 years ago we had 2 of the compliance officers from the Northeast Division, last year we were actually lucky enough to get one of the inspectors from the Albany region, etc.) as well as speakers from both National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureaus and Federal Trade Commission so it is truly a full day!)​).  End of commercial!

    ------------------------------
    Victor Mencarelli
    Director Regulatory Affairs
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 01-Feb-2019 09:11
    Victor,

    I am deeply appreciative of your feedback. I came from a very different world (dental implants), and so navigating the cosmetics area, while not have as complicated as implants, has been challenging.  While some of the things that my company proposes are quite obvious to be medical devices, I find myself in limbo sometimes because some of the products by the way they are intended to be used are cosmetic, but have technological features that one would question whether or not they would fall under the medical device realm.  

    That said, I tend to think like you in that I consider the overall claims, and all other aspects of the product to help determine where best it falls.  I am delighted that you have recommended that resource Victor, and I will look into being a part of that group.  A great portion of my learning has been on my own along with webinars etc., and of course from great resources like you guys.  I thank you again and will propose that to management.

    Thanks again everyone for a great discussion from seasoned professionals like yourselves!!


    Cheers,
    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 27-Apr-2019 10:51
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 27-Apr-2019 13:09
    I would add some clarification, plus my own opinion here:

    When Victor says, "My thought is that the claim determines the classification more than the mechanism of action." I agree.  When Laura says, "I tend to think like you in that I consider the overall claims, and all other aspects of the product to help determine where best it falls," I think she is expanding beyond what Victor said, and dragging the technological characteristics back into it.  I don't think the technology is a consideration at all.  I don't think Victor thinks this, either, but I will leave it to him to clarify this point.

    Laura, given your background in dental implants, I think you may be trying to apply SE thinking (same intended use and same or similar technology) to this situation.  But this is not a determination of SE; it is a determination of cosmetic versus medical device, and I think the latter determination is based entirely on the claims.  The only way i can think of that the nature of the technology might creep into it is if a company made a cosmetic device identical to a medical device for the express purpose of encouraging/misleading consumers into thinking the device could be used for the same purpose as the identical medical device.  Then I think FDA would look to see whether the company was engaging in any behavior that indicated this intent (e.g., advertising it as a cosmetic directly to the patient population that would normally buy the identical medical device).

    If I had RA responsibility for this device, I would write a good memo to file that explains why the company considers it to be a cosmetic, rather than a medical device, with reference to the definitions in the FD&C Act.  The worst that happens is that some day FDA disagrees, and then the company either withdraws the product from the US market or begins marketing it as a medical device, a bridge yet to appear on the horizon, much less to be crossed.

    But I don't have RA responsibility for this device, so it is not my call.  It is your call, so if you want to call it from the gut, that's your decision to make.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 13:09
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 31-Jan-2019 13:10
    I would say that, if you accept dermal fillers as meeting the definition of a medical device based on the fact that they eliminate wrinkles, then any other device that claims to ​eliminate wrinkles is also a medical device.  However, it should be noted that, at least in the one source I found, FDA doesn't say its a "medical device," but a "cosmetic device," which as far as I know, is not identified as anything regulated by FDA under the FD&C act.  Nor is a "device," as far as I know.

    I would also say that what is regulated by the goose should be regulated by the gander, so that all those lotions and potions claiming to "affect the structure or any function of the body" by eliminating should also be regulated, as drugs.  But of course that isn't happening, nor is it ever likely to.

    If your company wants to market such a device, and not as a medical device, then I think the best you can do is write a solid note to file as to why you have concluded that it is a cosmetic, rather than a medical device. I would base my rationale on the definitions in the Act, rather than a survey of different products that FDA regulates one way or another. A survey can be helpful to point you in the right direction, but I think it is the Act that should rule, not FDA's oversight practices as applied to individual products, which as you have seen, can get kind of hinky.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Durham, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 13:26
    Julie,

    It has been such a challenge in that I find several other devices with like features and technological aspects that are not regulated and some that are.  The device in question is one that we are considering that uses micro current to massage the face when using a serum both for cleansing and for absorption of the ingredients to help the face look brighter, cleaner and luminous.  

    Certainly challenging.....



    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 01-Feb-2019 09:03
    Laura,

    I'd encourage you to be very careful when you refer to "other products that are not regulated as a medical device." I suspect that in quite a few cases, they are devices that "the manufacturer has chosen not to follow the medical device regulations" or "the manufacturer doesn't know that the medical device regulations apply" and they may, indeed, be "regulated as medical devices" if you asked anyone at the FDA (or other regulatory agencies).

    FWIW, sometimes you can appease your management by simply "asking" folks at FDA this - either you get an answer for your device OR you at least make them aware that others are playing fast and loose with the regulations. They usually do eventually catch up.

    g-

    ------------------------------
    Ginger Glaser RAC
    Chief Technology Officer
    MN
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 01-Feb-2019 09:20
    Agreed Ginger.  It has been so challenging trying to get management to understand that in some cases we may be treading a very fine line and that it is best to err on the side of caution.

    Once again, thank you for the great feedback as always.

    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 13:28
    Julie, Laura,

    I agree that devices are subject to a much higher level of scrutiny than cosmetics and that this seems unfair. Given that an ointment or cream can be absorbed by the skin and a piece of PEEK plastic simply rests on the skin, I tend to find the risks associated with using a traditional cosmetic to be much higher. However, imparting heat or electromagnetic energy has its own set of risks so I can understand the need to regulate such products. To paraphrase what Julie said in one of her posts, these products were in dire need of regulation by someone, and CDRH stepped up. As to why cosmetic companies continue to market their wares in a relatively lenient regulatory environment, well .... my guess is that unless there is an "event" that triggers a need for more stringent regulation, things will continue as they are.

    I get how dermal fillers are considered devices because the mechanism of action is mechanical, they are literally filling as opposed to stimulating some kind of response in an organism.

    The fact that there is a slew of "cosmetic devices" being sold doesn't mean it's legal or that they are not regulated. They are indeed regulated, but the law isn't being enforced. My former client got away with selling his lifting masks until he got caught and after that was being watched very carefully.

    ------------------------------
    Jean Bigoney PhD, RAC, CQE
    Regulatory Affairs Specialist
    Morrisville
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 31-Jan-2019 14:37
    Thank you Jean.  I get what you are saying and certainly agree.  Is there a reference in the regulations that I can point to to support what it is you are stating "if it imparts heat, energy etc.," it will be regulated as a device? 


    Thank you,
    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura HoShue
    Regulatory Compliance Specialist
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    USA
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Apr-2019 08:12
    oming back to the original question of meaning of "FDA Registered"

    It's not uncommon for manufacturers, especially in emerging markets, to file facility registration and associated listings  as is required for manufacture of Class I products.  They then promote themselves as FDA registered and imply that their products or factories have been in some way "approved by FDA, when in fact there has never been an audit or a premarket review of any kind.

    Arthur

    ------------------------------
    Arthur Brandwood PhD FRAPS
    Founder and Principal Consultant
    Brandwood Biomedical
    Sydney, Australia
    Arthur@brandwoodbiomedical.com
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Apr-2019 09:49
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 28-Apr-2019 09:51
    As a US consumer, I'm okay with this practice:

    • They have complied with a key legal requirement for selling a medical device in the US.
    • They didn't make the claim that they are registered without actually registering, a practice that is not uncommon. 
    • They have been willing to put themselves at risk (however small) of FDA inspection, although I'm not sure they always understand this. More important, they have put themselves at substantive risk should their product cause serious harm to US patients, since this would increase the likelihood of it coming to FDA's attention and also the likelihood of regulatory action.
    • They have the wherewithal to register, which some of these manufacturers don't. I think some don't even go deep enough to know that it is actually possible to register with FDA; they just see the claim on other products and copy it.
    • I can look at their product, registration, etc, and see if I think it is SE to another Class I device.  If they are selling it on Amazon, I can post a review with the results my investigation. (My idea of a fun hobby is to search Amazon for "FDA" and then follow up.)



    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Apr-2019 10:45
    As a professional and a consumer, I am not OK with it.  FDA is not. FTC is not. It is misleading advertising.  If I were a competitor I would turn them in, though whether FDA or FTC would bother to enforce is a crap shoot.

    Not only Class 1 devices do this.

    ------------------------------
    Ginger Cantor, MBA, RAC
    Founder/Principal Consultant
    Centaur Consulting LLC
    River Falls, Wisconsin 54022 USA
    715-307-1850
    centaurconsultingllc@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 28-Apr-2019 13:37
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 28-Apr-2019 13:39

    I do not see how it is misleading for a company that is registered with FDA to claim that it is registered with FDA.

    Long ago, there was a prohibition against advertising your products were FDA anything, but my recollection is that was overturned by lobbyists who persuaded whomever that consumers needed to know.

    Arthur goes on to state that they also "imply that their products or factories have been in some way "approved by FDA, when in fact there has never been an audit or a premarket review of any kind.""  If they actively do anything to imply this, then that would be misleading.  If they simply rely on customers to assume rather than verify, that's okay by me.  I'm not a fan of assumers.



    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 08:05
    To quote FDA (and back onto the original cosmetics question...):

    "Is it permitted to label cosmetics "FDA Approved"? (link)
    No. As part of the prohibition against false or misleading information, no cosmetic may be labeled or advertised with statements suggesting that FDA has approved the product. This applies even if the establishment is registered or the product is on file with FDA's Voluntary Cosmetic Registration Program (VCRP) (see 21 CFR 710.8 and 720.9, which prohibit the use of participation in the VCRP to suggest official approval). False or misleading statements on labeling make a cosmetic misbranded [FD&C Act, sec. 602; 21 U.S.C. 362]."


    ... And more specifically for medical devices:

    "Misbranding  (link)

    Section 502 of the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) contains provisions on misbranding including some that relate to false or misleading labeling.  A device's labeling misbrands the product if: ...  there is any representation that creates an impression of official approval because of the possession by the firm of an FDA registration number."

    So it certainly isn't OK by FDA to engage in this kind of misleading conduct.  Similar laws apply in other parts of the world including here in Australia.

    ------------------------------
    Arthur Brandwood PhD FRAPS
    Founder and Principal Consultant
    Brandwood Biomedical
    Sydney, Australia
    Arthur@brandwoodbiomedical.com
    ------------------------------



  • 40.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 08:38
    I totally agree Arthur.  


    Julie, 

    The average consumer would not understand and it is duplicitous in my opinion to rely on their understanding of whether or not they are being deceived.  Consumer beware is an ethically shady position to me, when the Agency has given clear guidelines on this.  Too many companies try to gain market share with marginal products using this type of marketing to offset that fact.  I have usually seen this in foreign companies and in startups, both of whom don't always appreciate the nuance. 

    Happy Monday! 

    Ginger









  • 41.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 09:09
    Edited by Julie Omohundro 29-Apr-2019 09:10
    To quote one of Erik Vollebregt's articles on Brexit/MDR, "Nature is not a moral theater," nor is business. 

    If I had to choose between disappearing all the businesses that operate legally but in ethical gray areas, and all the consumers that do not beware, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat. 

    And that would take care of the former in a heartbeat as well.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 09:04
    Well, that's what happens when a thread gets 30+ long. :)  To recap my perspective:

    - It's not misleading for a firm to advertise "FDA registered" when a firm is, in fact, registered with FDA.
    - It's not misleading for a firm to advertise a product as "FDA listed" when the product is, in fact, listed with FDA.
    - It's not misleading for a firm to advertise a product as "FDA cleared" when the product has, in fact, been cleared by FDA.
    - It's not misleading for a firm to advertise a product as "FDA approved" when the product has, in fact, been approved by FDA.
    - It's not misleading for a firm to advertise a product as "FDA classified" when the product has, in fact, been classified (De novo) by FDA.

    Moreover...

    - It's not misleading for a firm to advertise a product as "FDA approved" or  "FDA cleared" or"FDA classified" if the firm has been registered and the the product has been listed with FDA, but the product hasn't been approved, cleared, or classified by FDA.  It's FALSE.

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 09:53
    One more reply

    FDA has clearly stated if you say the product has been cleared without explaining the difference in review between cleared versus approved devices (level of scrutiny) or refer to 510(k)   # without doing the same, it is misbranding

    Best regards, Ginger






  • 44.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 11:47
    Agreed, although I think honored as much in the breach as the observance. 😞

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------



  • 45.  RE: FDA Registered

    Posted 29-Apr-2019 09:12
    And actually, Laura's ORIGINAL question was about "FDA Registered," not FDA Approved.'

    ------------------------------
    Julie Omohundro, ex-RAC (US, GS), still an MBA
    Principal Consultant
    Class Three, LLC
    Mebane, North Carolina, USA
    919-544-3366 (T)
    434-964-1614 (C)
    julie@class3devices.com
    ------------------------------