Regulatory Open Forum

 View Only
Expand all | Collapse all

The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

  • 1.  The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 22-Dec-2021 09:38
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Hi everyone,

    I thought this would be the ideal space to get input, hiding behind anonymity (thanks RAPS for allowing that) and asking this seemingly silly question that's been daunting me for years.

    Have you EVER as (specially female) Regulatory Professionals felt scared of giving a regulatory assessment to your colleagues/clients of fear of their reaction? their denial of simple regulatory facts and their expected heavy push-back?

    I run my own consultancy business these days because I could not stand this kind of behaviour at the workplace anymore, it was literally making me sick. Today, I had to let go, for the first time since I started my business, of a client that was exhibiting such tendencies. 

    Of course, I feel bad because I would not in a million years want to ever have this happen, but it seemed like a necessity. This revived an age old question about this profession that I LOVE, and wondered if others experience the same type of pressures in their jobs and do you handle it?

    Thanks and merry xmas :)


  • 2.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 23-Dec-2021 07:19
    Your question has several facets.

    First, yes - the regulatory perspective can, and does, run counter to certain business objectives or seemingly creates restrictions and does generate that kind of response.  My experience here has been both positive and negative. 

    Smart, collaborative, and successful colleagues/business leaders understand that regulatory is PART OF the process of medical product development and commercialization and understand that sometimes that parts of the process can be at odds with each other and figure out ways to get those parts to co-exist and drive success.  Others who are more myopic and, frankly, short-sighted (and dumb) view regulatory as an obstacle and aren't interested in working together to find paths to success.  What I have done over the years is develop a good sense for the toxic cultures and move away from them.  They do NOT exist everywhere and when you do find a place that values your contribution - make the most of it because then work isn't really work - its fun and engaging.

    I have also learned that we aren't the end game (regulatory that is).  Again, as PART OF the process we sometimes don't have the final say in things, but we always need to be representing the regulatory perspective in our expert advice to the organization - identifying the regulatory pathways, the regulatory risks, the possible solutions - but then a broader team needs to take that advice and make appropriate business decisions.  Much like the assessment of products going to approval - decisions are based on a risk:benefit assessment.  Nothing is 100% safe or effective in our business, which means things are traded off in decision-making.  

    I empathize with you about the stress of giving "contrary" or "unwelcome" perspectives to the team, but that is our job.  Over time and with experience, I became more comfortable doing so because sometimes its the job.  But again, the recipients of the news make the difference.  If in a collaborative environment, they know it isn't your personal perspective, but that you are giving them the expert regulatory viewpoint - which is an important distinction.

    You were smart in moving out of those toxic situations and as a fellow consultant I applaud you letting the toxic client(s) go - I have done the same because life is too short to let those people/companies ruin your life and create stress and anxiety.   Same for employers - I have had some where each day at work was a battle and some - especially my last 10-11 years, where going to work was a pleasure because of the culture I was part of in that organization.

    Hang in there - find the right cultures and people to surround yourself in and you'll have a lot of that anxiety/stress melt away and look back on it later as lessons-learned in your career.  It isn't easy, but good luck!

    Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!!


    ------------------------------
    Glenn Byrd, MBA
    President, GByrd Ad-Promo Solutions, LLC
    Chairman, RAPS Board of Directors
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 23-Dec-2021 09:18
    Anon, that is the beauty of being an independent,  the ability to walk away.  I too have gracefully "declined" work with excessively recalcitrant clients.

    Facing agressive pushback is just part of the profession, and will helps develop the thick skin and diplomatic skills required in this profession.

    No one wants to hear that their baby is not the most beautiful, and successful RA operatives navigate these critical conversations with the skill of a diplomat.

    Not entirely sure of who to ascribe this quote to..
    "A true diplomat will tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the journey."




    ------------------------------
    Michael Chellson
    MSc, RAC
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 13:02
    Just reading this wonderful and important discussion posts. I really like the idea of RA professionals being sort of diplomats!

    ------------------------------
    Hasnaa FATEHI
    Principal Consultant
    District, Taipei City
    Taiwan
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 14-Jan-2022 13:50
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    When I worked at a small start up with a bit of a bro culture, I was the only woman on the management team. I get that it's the role of the CEO to be the company's biggest cheerleader, but that can blind them to certain uncomfortable facts (yes, you need to document that; yes, that guidance applies to our product). I tried to use a sports analogy to explain RA's role (product development is a team sport and RA is part of your defense!)

    After pointing out their magical thinking a few too many times, I stopped getting invited to meetings, and then was let go. The official cause of dismissal was that I wasn't 'happy enough'. Glad to leave that toxic environment!


  • 6.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 23-Dec-2021 11:01
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    It's definitely not a silly question.

    There are personal and interpersonal and cultural factors involved, and how we all handle those factors impacts the success of businesses.

    Similar issues occur outside the regulatory area, too. I have seen a mechanical engineering manager certain that as a member of management he knew more about the software design than the software engineers who designed it. I have seen young engineers, both male and female, completely unable to serve as independent reviewers and challenge their supervisors' work. I have seen a small female manager's suggestion in a meeting dismissed, and the very same suggestion parroted by her large male colleague a few minutes later hailed as a great idea.

    Personally, I'm female, regulatory professional, with Asperger's tendencies. I live with facts, so I tend not to be afraid of people. I present facts. I make suggestions. If they don't like my suggestions, or if they're curious, I give more background and present options. If they have alternative suggestions, I provide evaluations - including the risk to the company if they choose an approach that doesn't meet the regulations. If they want to yell, to relieve their feelings, that's ok, but the facts don't change.

    One challenge for me was a regulatory colleague who used to contradict me, telling the team my facts were wrong. I don't know why. But facts are easy enough to check, so I kept credibility, and she found some non-regulatory work she liked better.

    Client-consultant relationships are an interesting thing. Sometimes they're productive and sometimes not. If it's not a good match, ending it is in both parties' best interests. You don't need to feel bad about that. For the future, maybe you will have better luck, maybe you can choose clients with better manners, maybe you will develop interpersonal skills to encourage their better behavior or laugh at their tantrums, probably some combination.

    Merry xmas!


  • 7.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 23-Dec-2021 11:02
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Posting anonymously (thanks RAPS) for reasons which will quickly become apparent.
    This happens to me on a regular basis in my current position.  My company has a massive disrespect for regulatory overall and constantly demands to have me quote verbatim the regulation covering what I am saying.  And, of course, most times I've given them my interpretation of a regulation, as nothing is black and white in regulatory.  My interpretation is based on my 20 years of experience in this field and multiple successes, yet I'm constantly challenged and treated as if I don't know what I'm talking about.  
    As you may have guessed, I'm looking for another job.


  • 8.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 23-Dec-2021 11:26
    I am fortunate to work for a start up that really values QARA. I think the stress of this job is its very binary.

    The only time my group needs immediate attention is during audits or submissions. The only other time is when something is not going well. Its like your relationship with your doctor. If your doctor calls you and wants to talk right away it usually means a bad news.

    ------------------------------
    Edward Panek
    VP, QA/RA
    Med Device
    USN Veteran
    Research into Neural Nets - https://www.twitch.tv/edosani
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 23-Dec-2021 15:54
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    I am also a female in regulatory. I have had the experience but not the anxiety. And yes, I do see cultural forces at work in some of these situations. The fact that regulatory can be subjective also plays into it. And if your colleagues are educated engineers or PhDs, they may have very high opinions of their own intelligence in all subject matters, even those where they have no training or experience.

    My view is that they are paying my salary to give them regulatory advice. If they want to pay me and not take the advice, that is their loss. I will often share that statement (either more politely or with a bit of humor), which often helps reset the conversation. If I'm able to show data to support my advice and be willing to back down or admit when I am wrong, that helps build more trust for next time.

    If they continue to ignore the advice and make poor decisions, I will move on so those choices don't damage my reputation as a regulatory professional. If it's just now and then or with minor decisions, I roll with it. We all have lots of opinions in this field.


  • 10.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 27-Dec-2021 10:43
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Just review the questions and the responses one receives on this RA forum. Clearly some responses are shooting from the hip and without understanding the question appropriately! Some people review the question appropriately and respond rationally! So this is the reality of RA profession! The number of years of experience really doesn't matter because the RA or the FDA environment is changing rapidly and to the better in most ways! The people who cannot adapt to this dynamic environment and mostly gloating on their past success will be out of place and would quit or change the company or contracts! So my point is not all RA professionals are good and not all RA professionals are bad so one needs to adapt and be flexible come to the common ground to provide success to the companies and clients! Good luck!


  • 11.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 05-Jan-2022 12:25
    Edited by Jennifer Ng Ain Kin 05-Jan-2022 12:29
    Dear Anon

    Part of the RA job is to go through the negative what-ifs scenarios that other functional groups (and sometimes even management) might not want to tackle and as such these perspectives would ruffle some feathers or put them on the defensive. I consider that par for the course in our profession. So it is a reality and happens often to get push-back. 

    As for the anxiety or feeling scared of the push-back, my answer is no. 

    Majoring in electrical engineering at university (in the early 90s), there were very few women and early on, I had to learn to hold my own as I was always a minority in a male-dominated field. We were not always welcomed by the professors/peers and often discouraged to stay. Yet we prevailed and learned to fit in.  I started my career at 23 writing embedded code for armoured military vehicles, aircrafts, submarines, etc.  I took it quite seriously as other people's lives depended on it.  In my RA career, I find it amusing how attitudes do seem to change (positively) when learning about my engineering background and experience. It shouldn't be like that but it has definitely helped me create better collaborative relationships with other functional team members (I am at a large MedDev corporation). 

    It's great that you found a pathway to stay in the profession by building your own business. I also applaud the courage to say No to the client with the bad behaviour. One thing that you do not mention is personality and it plays a big role on interactions with others, no matter what profession. I am a big MBTI fan and have used many of the concepts to better understand myself and also others, and with great results. I would encourage you to explore more about that as well. 

    Wishing you all the best.



    ------------------------------
    Jennifer Ng Ain Kin
    Regulatory Affairs, Advertising and Promotion
    Santa Clara CA
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 06-Jan-2022 04:44
    Edited by Alexander Yates 06-Jan-2022 04:44

    What a great question...and one that has prompted my first post on this forum (having just joined RAPS recently).

    I have absolutely faced this anxiety many times throughout my career, and echo a lot of what others have already said. I also note that while it should be part of our role to have our colleagues pressure test our recommendations and advice, that should never be aggressive or personal in nature.

    To combat my own anxiety, I've developed a few approaches over the years that have helped me when facing this situation.

    • Understanding my colleagues (customers) needs - if I know what they want to achieve, and why, I can clearly message how my advice will help them reach their goals
    • I don't always quote legislation as so much of what we do is in the grey and relies on experience not legislation/guidance
    • I present options, with a recommendation that I consider likely to be most palatable to the Regulators (i.e. what an Agency would like, not what I would like), acknowledging where this may not be aligned with the team's goals
    • I aim to show willingness to listen to my non-Regulatory colleagues' recommendations; some also have great experience to bring, and sometimes a simple question can prompt a change in approach
    • I aim to show support for the team's decision once it is made, regardless of if my recommendation is followed

    Thanks again for posting a great question, I look forward to seeing how this discussion develops.



    ------------------------------
    Alex Yates, based in the United Kingdom

    The views I express here are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 07-Jan-2022 09:37
    This is an excellent question. It has a more general application not just to business but to personal relationships. When we have to give a negative opinion or response to a question that does not meet the expectation of the listener it does create a certain amount of anxiety on our part. It probably also creates more than anxiety with the listener. In the consulting business for regulatory affairs and compliance when asked to give opinions that are fact-based we like to use supporting evidence. The key is to give an honest appraisal of the situation.

    Over the years we've done a fair amount of GMP, GCP, and GLP audits. Occasionally an audit can be very negative because of noncompliance and this information is delivered to the company which has requested the audit in the first place.  Note that at the conclusion of the audit whether on site or virtual we given an executive summary listing all the findings and observations. These are also included in the report and the receivers of this information have ample opportunity to question the findings.  If we have made an error we make the change. The worst case with negative findings or opinions is that the client delays payment for the service.

    If however you are a regulatory affairs person in a company and render opinions and commentary that although correct and justified can create a negative atmosphere surrounding your presence in the organization. You will need a champion in the company to support your efforts. If none are available you become isolated.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Schiff PhD, RAC, CQA, FRAPS
    CEO
    Schiff & Company, Inc.
    583 Mountain Avenue
    North Caldwell, NJ 07006
    rschiff13@aol.com
    973-568-3361

    Celebrating 40 Years (1982-2022) in Regulatory Affairs, Compliance and Clinical Research
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 10-Jan-2022 11:35
    As others have said, push-back to regulatory advice definitely happens. Whether you become anxious about it depends on several factors. The environment that you were in I think would definitely contribute to a higher level of anxiety. I personally don't feel that anxiety much because (a) I'm more of a "rule-follower" than a "people-pleaser" in my personality, (b) I've always had strong support from my management re. my advice, and (c) I've never been in an environment where my advice was just completely ignored (challenged and complained about, but not dismissed out of hand). If you don't have strong management support and are constantly fighting those battles, you would have to be VERY self-confident to not feel anxiety, or at least just exhausted from the never-ending conflict.

    For me, I don't think I'm afraid so much as just not looking forward to a difficult conversation. For particularly contentious issues, I will often consult some of my internal colleagues for a sanity-check on my interpretation.

    But it's not always a lost cause. At my current company, before I came here, I've heard that the GRA-CMC department was not very well respected. The GRA-CMC director who hired me was working to change that and successfully did by hiring several experienced people and making sure we were included in strategic discussions. And having some hard lessons learned by the company when our advice was ignored. Things are much different now. As I said, strong leadership and support from your own management is crucial.

    ------------------------------
    Rachel Thornton
    Associate Director
    Smyrna GA
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 11-Jan-2022 21:34
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Most definitely the risk exists, but I wouldn't say that I'm continually anxious about it.  Of course, that's probably more about my confidence in my work as I'm careful to consider any controversial topic from every angle and to be ready with chapter and verse citations to support what I'm saying.  I've also hardened off through the years,  so I no longer take it personally as I'm not the one that wrote the "rules."

    While I've had almost a 35 year career, I would say that the incidents I've experienced have become more frequent and more hostile over the years.  Now whether that is because I'm bolder, or because the projects I'm taking on are bigger in scope, or it's because of a generalized trend for people to be more rude and demanding….We'll only have to guess that it's probably a bit of all three.

    As to the degree of threats that I have experienced, these examples come to mind:  1) My car has been keyed; 2) A Director of Manufacturing has lunged across the table at me; 3) My VP has cautioned that I might be unsafe in a certain building on campus (I never felt unsafe); 4) People have asked that I be pulled from projects; and 5) Consultants, attorneys, or others have been asked to review my opinions. 

    I would also like to say that in all cases, the threatening behavior was deemed unacceptable by my management.  I'm not aware that anyone was ever officially reprimanded, but I didn't officially report any of it either.  And there have always been colleagues and others that worked to "defend" or otherwise support my work.  And I can only think of one time that I was pulled from an assignment in which case it was alright by me that my boss directly handle the group involved.

    Still I love my job.



  • 16.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 12-Jan-2022 09:21
    Anonymous appears to be in a very difficult work environment. Although he or she still loves the job it is really difficult to say that management supports the work because as the writer indicates others have been asked to review the opinions. That's not really a sign of full confidence. However this may be the norm depending upon the size and whether or not this is a public or private company.


    ------------------------------
    Robert Schiff PhD, RAC, CQA, FRAPS
    CEO
    Schiff & Company, Inc.
    583 Mountain Avenue
    North Caldwell, NJ 07006
    rschiff13@aol.com
    973-568-3361

    Celebrating 40 Years (1982-2022) in Regulatory Affairs, Compliance and Clinical Research
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 08:53
    I have seen regulatory shopping in public companies when the decision does not meet marketing department unrealistic timelines.  Happens all the time.  

    In small private companies, usually venture capital board member or other key investor sticks their nose in and opines on regulatory, when they have no background or understanding or appetite for delaying "launch".

    ------------------------------
    Ginger Cantor, MBA, RAC
    Founder/Principal Consultant
    Centaur Consulting LLC
    River Falls, Wisconsin 54022 USA
    715-307-1850
    centaurconsultingllc@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 10:04
    In the CMC world it's usually from a change requestor looking for a "no regulatory impact" change control assessment :D

    ------------------------------
    Rachel Thornton
    Associate Director
    Smyrna GA
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 12-Jan-2022 11:59
    Holy cow, that is extreme! I've never had anything near to that happen. I've had my advice/opinion ignored, and we often experience what we call "regulatory shopping" (they keep asking different people from RA until they get the answer they want), but no actual physical aggression or property damage. I'm glad the behavior was at least deemed inappropriate by the organization - just sorry that you had to experience that.

    ------------------------------
    Rachel Thornton
    Associate Director
    Smyrna GA
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 13:40

    My RA experience was mostly in evaluating the output (submissions and audits) from RA professionals seeking or continuing access to the EU Market. I have witnessed business cultures where RA appears to have been embraced, supported, valued. I have seen environments where RA is tolerated, unfortunately, sometimes I have seen RA professionals enduring unreasonable pressure and lacking sufficient support, influence within the process (in my opinion).

     

    RA would be easy if every decision was black and white, if regulations and requirements were unambiguous and crystal clear. One part of what makes the RA profession so interesting is the challenge of the interpretation of grey, based on experience, data, precedents, consideration of known risks and current expectations.

     

    I have found the RAPS Code of Ethics valuable in reinforcing my own professional compass:

     

    https://www.raps.org/who-we-are/code-of-ethics

     

    Fortunately, I have worked in cultures where the overriding RA consideration was to do the right thing and reach reasoned consensus, even when unreasonable pressures were applied to support inappropriate decisions. Sometimes, on reflection, as a team we were too risk adverse and sometimes perhaps we were persuaded to be too pragmatic. That's real life and no one, no process is infallible, but I worked in cultures and environments that always supported us. I have made uncomfortable and unpopular RA decisions, but always felt I could defend my positions accepting that not everything is clear-cut.  

     

    I always admire RA professionals who can maintain fidelity with the intent of the Code of Ethics. I think it can be very tough, sometimes a little lonely and not always appreciated, but vital to long-term viability of manufacturers and their products. Paramount in RA is the protection and benefit to patients.

     

    Generally getting people to appreciate the long game is healthy, the celebration of getting a product cleared for the market can quickly turn very painful if problems are identified later because there was not enough attention to sufficient premarket data or analysis.   

     

    When I have witnessed an environment and culture that appears a bit toxic to good RA practice I have wondered what I would do working in that environment, would I battle to change the culture, change minds, win support or at some point would I get frustrated and walk away to a better environment. For me one of the significant benefits of RAPS is access to a community that empathizes and understands the difficulty in RA practice and provides support to give us confidence to continue best RA practice for the benefit of all of stakeholders.

     

    Be strong! You're never alone.      



    ------------------------------
    Paul Brooks
    Salt Lake City UT
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 14:29
    Thank you Paul

    Well said, as usual.

    Ginger





  • 22.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 15:16
    Nice comments Paul and Ginger.  We all have our anxiety inducing stimuli.  For example one that I have learned to manage over the years is that we may receive an email that appears to have a negative tonal quality.  This may induce anxiety. However after talking one to one with the sender, voice and if it's virtual, the body language may express something totally different. This also works in reverse.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Schiff PhD, RAC, CQA, FRAPS
    CEO
    Schiff & Company, Inc.
    583 Mountain Avenue
    North Caldwell, NJ 07006
    rschiff13@aol.com
    973-568-3361

    Celebrating 40 Years (1982-2022) in Regulatory Affairs, Compliance and Clinical Research
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 15:19
    I just read the code of ethics of RAPS. Very useful! Thanks for sharing!

    ------------------------------
    Hasnaa FATEHI
    Principal Consultant
    Vancouver BC
    Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 13-Jan-2022 16:18
    Thank you all for the discussions, and thank you, Paul.  I read the Code of Ethics again today, very important!

    ------------------------------
    Lin Wu, RAC
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 14-Jan-2022 03:48
    Thanks all - the insights are fantastic, and I'd definitely also highlight that we should never feel alone with such a strong supportive community (this is a great example of where your network can be really important).

    I'm curious to see if anyone who is early in their career has any ideas or suggestions regarding how those of us in Leadership positions can be supportive and help alleviate the anxiety. I've some thoughts, but would love to hear what others have to say.

    ------------------------------
    Alex Yates, based in the UK

    The views I express here are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 14-Jan-2022 09:49
    Great question Alexander,

    Short answer: unwavering senior leadership support.

    Several years ago, I was tasked with leading a team changing "Corporate RA/QA Paradigms" @ 25 global facilities.  My team was championed by the CEO directly. 

    The first step was to implement a "Global" Quality Policy Manual.  After several rounds of discussion/negotiation with only the "C-Level" executives we drafted the manual, and the C-Level leaders ALL approved and signed the final manual.

    Whoo Boy! was there pushback, "too invasive and prescriptive, we don't do that here, I don't have staff for that, etc.  Several divisional leaders went directly to the C-Suite to look for relief.  After listening to their concerns, the consistent response was, "Have you spoken to the team leader, those decisions are made by the team."   The CEO refused to engage in relief shopping from the divisional heads, and sent the complainers back to the team.  And truth be told, they never came back to us as they knew the C-Suite was in agreement with the policies and pushback would not be tolerated.  

    I can't imagine how that program would have turned out had the C-Suite allowed dissent.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Chellson
    MSc, RAC
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 14-Jan-2022 17:04
    Edited by Hasnaa FATEHI 14-Jan-2022 17:18
    This is such a great question Alex. I do not identify as early in my RA career, rather mid-career, but please allow me to share some of my thoughts/observations:

    • In my view, a top down approach works only to foster "passive-aggressive" tensions, gossip, complaints behind people's backs etc. An alternative approach could be to screen candidates for their "ethical behaviour" and reasons they want to be part of the healthcare industry at the hiring stage
    • I truly believe the attractiveness and influence of the functions would increase, if no longer perceived as "cost centres", and company structures are changed to recognize RA/QA as sales and MKT engines
    • "Outsourcing" the ethics of what a business should or should not do to one single function is, in my view, another issue. Everyone must care to do the right thing and not put the RA/QA functions in a position where they have to "pay the price" (e.g. job loss, mental health, career progression) regardless of the position they take
    • Then there is the gender and race components:  Few times, I have been looked down upon when discussing a technical/scientific matter just because I was from RA. The perception is that people (mostly women) who chose the RA path are clerical and non-creative. Often, my colleagues are shocked to learn I have a PhD in mathematical biology, an MSc in Biomedical engineering, a BSc in Mechanical Engineering and I am currently finishing a certificate in Fine Arts at a top Arts and Design university. I am perfectly capable of creative AND rigorous thinking. 
      I felt this most acutely when internally moving from RA to QA Ops roles. The mere fact that I came from RA meant (somehow)  that I could not think technically and in formal mathematical or process based ways. 
    • Another issue, in my view, is that it is "cool/smart/innovative" to challenge the regulator/regulations no matter what, even if that meant you had no idea what you were doing/talking about and even if that meant you are jeopardizing patients health

    Net, a total "re-branding" combined with true recognition of RA's value in business building are long overdue here. COVID could be an excellent opportunity for example. Yet, I don't think I saw any external celebrations of RA professionals' absolutely critical role in creatively and safely bringing vaccines, drugs and medical devices to patients.

    ------------------------------
    Hasnaa FATEHI
    Principal Consultant
    Vancouver BC
    Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 14-Jan-2022 16:13
    Thank you, Paul, for such a thoughtful response, and for the link to the code of ethics. I'm bookmarking this to return to when under pressure. This one bullet point, especially, jumped out at me:

    • Recognizing the best course of action may not be in the short-term interest of their employer.

    I think this can lead to the anxiety that started this thread, since we are often in an environment focused on short-term objectives.

    ------------------------------
    Marianne Jacklyn
    Principal Consultant
    West Linn OR
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 15-Jan-2022 11:38
    Thank you Marianne Jacklyn for citing the ethics bullet point you found useful. Your post reminded me: this conversation is precisely WHY we drafted those bullets in the code of ethics years ago - at least for my part on the team. Also this reminds me why we should probably revisit those guiding principles again right now. After COVID, EUAs, new workforce environments and more global harmonization than ever before, I believe the time is right for ethics updates, training and support from and for our membership. I'd be happy to participate again if anyone else is interested in working on this? I suppose we start by asking the central office to open a task force for this again. Not sure who is on the ethics committee right now?

    ------------------------------
    Joy Frestedt PHD, CPI, RAC, FRAPS, FACRP
    President and CEO
    Frestedt Incorporated (www.frestedt.com)
    Saint Louis Park MN
    United States
    612-219-9982
    jf@frestedt.com
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 15-Jan-2022 14:05

    Hello Joy,

    This is a great idea!

    I would be very interested in joining the Task Force to revise the Code-of-Ethics.

    Thanks,
    Hasnaa



    ------------------------------
    Hasnaa FATEHI
    Principal Consultant
    Vancouver BC
    Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 15-Jan-2022 15:02
    Thanks Hasnaa FATEHI! I will reach out to the central office to see about a work plan and priority rating from them. Please note, we also developed a course several years ago for 4.0 RAC Credits online if anyone is interested, the course is titled "Ethics--Essential Tools for Regulatory Professionals [4.0 RAC]" - I agree with all those who responded and those mulling this over, this is an important discussion.  Let's support each other.

    ------------------------------
    Joy Frestedt PHD, CPI, RAC, FRAPS, FACRP
    President and CEO
    Frestedt Incorporated (www.frestedt.com)
    Saint Louis Park MN
    United States
    612-219-9982
    jf@frestedt.com
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 15-Jan-2022 20:38
    Edited by Hasnaa FATEHI 15-Jan-2022 20:41
    Thank you Joy for sharing the title of the online course on Ethics, and for bringing this matter to the central office. 

    ------------------------------
    Hasnaa FATEHI
    Principal Consultant
    Vancouver BC
    Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 14-Jan-2022 13:41
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    I've experienced this throughout my career in Regulatory. I vividly recall a time when I presented my regulatory strategy to a cross functional team (I was the only female & poc in the room), a senior manager screamed at me because he learned we had to wait a few months for regulatory approval in a few markets instead of an immediate launch. None of the other team members in the room questioned his behavior, or stood up to the un-professional display. 

    I was definitely a bit scared/anxious after that experience. Since then, I remember being emotionally prepared for aggressive push back every time I presented a Regulatory plan/strategy regardless of the team. I've since learned to be more assertive, and make it a point to speak up when I see similar behavior on display.


  • 34.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 14-Jan-2022 13:48
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    Thank you everyone who candidly contributed their experience. It helps a great deal. 

    I had the post notifications turned off and thought no one replied. Clearly, I was wrong :)


    Again, thank you so much for you advice and support. 

    Have a wonderful rest of the week. 




  • 35.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 17-Jan-2022 08:06
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    I had a sort of opposite experience. Not what I'd call a healthy environment, but maybe an effective use of reverse psychology. My management chain made it clear I was expendable if my recommendations turned out bad and then essentially gave me the silent treatment. The teams I was supporting, knowing my position was precarious, became surprisingly protective of me, more interested in understanding the risks, and less apt to push them.


  • 36.  RE: The RA professional's anxiety- a reality? or is it just me :)

    Posted 18-Jan-2022 08:30
    Dear A.,
    Such a great question. It depends on the working environment and the country you are living in. To my personal believe.

    I appreciate a great environment at my current work. Great colleagues and a very balanced and diverse workplace (gender wise).

    As to my previous experience, working as a private consultant, I dealt with such attitude from a manufacturer from the East. They were pushing me and wanted to deal with the issue their way. I needed to clearly define my intellectual and emotional boundaries. And, I kept reminding them at every meeting (politely) what is my role and what is expected from them. In the end, we agreed that we cannot move forward with the project because it was not really cost effective for them. But it took about 2 months of my time to explain this to my customer (male dominated). Anyhow, I think, you do not need to be discouraged and believe in your strength and yourself. If you feel that it takes way too much of your time and energy, LET IT GO. 

    Cheers

    ------------------------------
    Eva Blaja
    RA Documentation Specialist
    Laval QC
    Canada
    ------------------------------